Workings #80779 Working to breakup with my girlfriend

[Asra]

Now everyone wants to shit on me.

Also no one is hating on you. You attack people who earned their titles, so others defend them. That's natural. It keeps systems in order. You wouldnt have gotten bad feedback if for example you disagreed with them or criticized them constructively. But insulting someone crosses a line, and you did it publicly, so you're going to get public reactions. And now we're all disrespecting OP by turning his important question into a lecture.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

Also no one is hating on you. You attack people who earned their titles, so others defend them. That's natural. It keeps systems in order. You wouldnt have gotten bad feedback if for example you disagreed with them or criticized them constructively. But insulting someone crosses a line, and you did it publicly, so you're going to get public reactions. And now we're all disrespecting OP by turning his important question into a lecture.

I never insulted HPS. Do you guys have some standards that I have to worship the ground she walks on while having a conversation or else I’m insulting?

 

[Stormblood]

First of all as High Priestess, you can disagree with something I said and not just go ahead and doubt my Zevism or say I’m not spiritual. If you are wiser you can give me advice not just blind rage and hate. I’m actually disappointed in your judgement and going for just blind rage and childish gestures like oven or whatever.

I gave this advice because I see it all the time and it works. I’m a Zevist not a God and certainly not a beacon of light or whatever I’m not perfect like that.

This reply seems to have got you super emotional, maybe you experienced something similar in the past and that’s why you are lashing out so hard on a member who has proved loyalty and has been here for years and done tons of rituals and even was close to you at some point and looked for your consultations before.

Pardon my French here, but this is a load of bs.

High Priestess Lydia did not attack you: she pointed out something you'd understand clearly, had you read and internalised our Ethics section. All your so-called "advice" here directly contradicts many of portions of our Ethics, not to mention borders on Atibilibil in social form rather than religious form.

Do you understand that Zevism is about becoming a Theophoros first and foremost, before becoming a God? You don't become a Theophoros by engaging in unethical behaviour.

Unethical behaviour literally increases alignment with Izfet, and thus the weight of your heart.

If you have already read the Ethics section in full, it would be worth reading it again paying attention this time. And then engaging in stronger internalisation of it through:

• Ethics Meditation
• Ethics Context Meditation

You've been here many years. I expect more from you, from this point of view.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

I am going to be polite here. Your initial advice came off as toxic manosphere nonsense, and you followed through all but brushing off High Priestess Lydia as, what, being an overly emotional hysterical woman or something? Putting it plainly, I'm beginning to think you need to evaluate your perception of women. That's the first thing. Second, have some respect for clergy. There's going to be an emotive reaction if the sort of advice you give can potentially result in the ruination of someone's life, regardless of whatever anecdotal evidence you have of it "working."

You could have just conceded the point, instead of choosing hostility towards High Priestess. And no, this is not just me "shitting on you". You're a long term member, as you have clearly said, and this is not the trajectory that you want to go down.

That was not the intent to show her as a hysterical woman or whatever. I don’t think like that.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

Pardon my French here, but this is a load of bs.

High Priestess Lydia did not attack you: she pointed out something you'd understand clearly, had you read and internalised our Ethics section. All your so-called "advice" here directly contradicts many of portions of our Ethics, not to mention borders on Atibilibil in social form rather than religious form.

Do you understand that Zevism is about becoming a Theophoros first and foremost, before becoming a God? You don't become a Theophoros by engaging in unethical behaviour.

Unethical behaviour literally increases alignment with Izfet, and thus the weight of your heart.

If you have already read the Ethics section in full, it would be worth reading it again paying attention this time. And then engaging in stronger internalisation of it through:

• Ethics Meditation
• Ethics Context Meditation

You've been here many years. I expect more from you, from this point of view.

You’re respectful and maybe you’re right. I haven’t familiarized myself with the new terms yet.

I honestly just saw this situation as emotional blackmail. It’s toxic and she’s crazy. So I just answered what I saw and from my experience, from my point of view I thought if someone’s manipulating, manipulate them back and get what you want in the end which is her just leaving. Surely it’s not that hard to get a girl to fall out of love and leave you.

I don’t get why this got so much hate it’s not rare to have someone try to emotionally blackmail even with suicide or whatever so you get the result you want in a different way.

Maybe I’m the one who’s been drowning in toxic relationships lol.

You guys are too perfect and ethical, maybe you’re the ones who are right. I’m comfortable with the toxicity honestly.

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Damn I never knew this topic was about suicide
She needs help
I think she needs help Not a Break up
I was about to also give some shitty advice
Sorry

 

[logicalmind]

Breaking up is pretty simple actually. You just say you both are done and you are officially separated. If you like, you can also explain your reasons. No specific Magick is needed here. This is not marriage, so it is easier to do so. As for killing herself, OP needs to consider this might be manipulation as most cases prove to be just plain and simple manipulations. Of course, if there is any substance towards committing suicide, then the most OP can do is inform her family, her good friends, so they would help her. He also can direct her towards help. Making a ritual to one of our Gods to help in aligning the situation in the best way for all the parties involved might be also beneficial.

As for advice to become toxic, so she would want to have breaking up herself, this is not actually too far fetched. This just needs to be properly presented. In lots of scenarios, this actually might work. But when utilizing such measures, this situation is prolonged to lengths that usually are not necessary and might cause problems for all parties involved. In the past, before coming to ToZ, I actually utilized this "advice" and it worked. For the same reason that the ex threatened to kill herself. But if I would have known better as I do now, I would have just replied to her: "You go, girl!" Why? Because I now know that such types of people are extremely manipulative, they would do nothing of the sort. And if the situation would be such that a girl would actually have done something, I would still have separated, except I would just inform related parties about such manipulations and threats, so they would deal with her behavior. I am not a professional psychiatrist/psychologist, so I would try not to be involved in such sensitive matters. Situations might be different, but the fact remains. Lowering your own standard and behaving like this is just humiliating towards yourself first. We are supposed to be willing to help other people, but this does not mean we should do so without any clear boundaries.

As for manosphere/MGTOW/MRA, I think we can clearly establish that this is an instance related to Atibilibil. Lots of men really suffer injustice from the modern system towards them. There are really many instances of such injustice. But those movements give no actual solutions. Even under the modern legal framework, men have way more options than they are presented or even believe they have. Lack of legal understanding, lack of education is usually used against them by various experienced lawyers. And guess how many substantial discussions happen among those movements which would provide actual solutions instead of nonsensical hate? Nearly zero? Thus, we need to take their "advice" on relationships very critically.

The framework that ToZ provides is superior in every way as it allows clarity and actually helps us in connecting with the highest form of intelligence in the whole reality. Our Gods. So, it is reasonable that I will always use the tools that give me the most power and solutions to my own challenges. I don't care about anyone confirming my own beliefs when I feel bad, especially if my beliefs are wrong according to reality. Self-reinforcing beliefs that are wrong on a fundamental level is the straight path to mental and spiritual problems. And finally, ToZ methods actually help people not to just understand reality as it is, but live life according to its laws to the full extent. To become really and genuinely happy. And happiness is not something that someone else defines for us. It is our inner happiness that we can access through constant efforts using the methods provided here.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

High Priestess Lydia gave an objective answer, if there was any emotional tone in it, it was only to emphasize the gravity of the situation. After all, someone’s life may be at stake. No one is questioning your devotion to the Gods or to our family. I understand that you gave this advice based on your own experience, and indeed, there are far too many manipulators who use suicide as an argument, but at times like this, it’s worth considering - what if a person is truly unstable and could harm herself? Such matters should always be approached comprehensively and from multiple angles, always remain objective. And here is my personal advice to you, if you feel you’ve been wronged or insulted - forgive them, as this is part of becoming the best version of yourself

You are right. I just felt bad, because HPS just saying something along the lines of are you really a Zevist or spiritual just felt dismissive of all the translations I’ve done, years I’ve been here, people I’ve helped, and you are just saying that I’m not really in this religion because of some relationship advice or smth.

 

[Asra]

I never insulted HPS. Do you guys have some standards that I have to worship the ground she walks on while having a conversation or else I’m insulting?

Brother you might have not meant it but that's how it came off since multiple people noticed. You don't have to call people names or swear at them to insult them.

 

[Aquarius]

I never insulted HPS. Do you guys have some standards that I have to worship the ground she walks on while having a conversation or else I’m insulting?

Don't play victim, you don't have to kiss the ground she walks on, but being considerate and respectful yes.

I sense woman hating attitudes on you, even maybe unconscious.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

I sense woman hating attitudes on you, even maybe unconscious.

So stop sensing and start thinking, and Aquarius I don’t want you to reply to me again. You piss me off and everything you say is either disrespectful or just trolling.

If you want to hold high morals and make this place a better place you need to fucking fix your attitude and communication.

Tons of Zevists here replied to me and most were respectful even if disagreeing and criticizing me to a high degree. I respect that.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

Brother you might have not meant it but that's how it came off since multiple people noticed. You don't have to call people names or swear at them to insult them.

Yes, I haven’t meant it and you’re right I might have come off as disrespectful but it wasn’t the intent.

 

[Akira666 • Φωτεινή]

You’re respectful and maybe you’re right. I haven’t familiarized myself with the new terms yet.

I honestly just saw this situation as emotional blackmail. It’s toxic and she’s crazy. So I just answered what I saw and from my experience, from my point of view I thought if someone’s manipulating, manipulate them back and get what you want in the end which is her just leaving. Surely it’s not that hard to get a girl to fall out of love and leave you.

I don’t get why this got so much hate it’s not rare to have someone try to emotionally blackmail even with suicide or whatever so you get the result you want in a different way.

Maybe I’m the one who’s been drowning in toxic relationships lol.

You guys are too perfect and ethical, maybe you’re the ones who are right. I’m comfortable with the toxicity honestly.

No one is pouring hatred on you.
You simply need to be more open to understanding the mistake you’re making.
If a person is seeking the light and finds themselves in total darkness, you cannot respond with darkness.
We Zevists must be a source of light.
If you yourself have been in toxic relationships and are stuck in toxic relationships and you admit it, you must have the humility and care not to carry that burden into your responses.
And ask yourself if you are in the best position to respond.

 

[Stormblood]

You guys are too perfect and ethical, maybe you’re the ones who are right. I’m comfortable with the toxicity honestly.

Nobody is perfect. Everybody struggles with something in life, and approaches some things from a wrong perspective. The point is we grow out of toxic behaviours, and become toxic and more apt as we go. I gave you one powerful way this growth can happen.

Fighting toxicity with toxicity only breeds more toxicity. It doesn't solve anything long-term.

It's like you're trying to purify a well by adding more contaminants in it. Is it going to get better or worse by doing that?

Just something to think about.

Another thing you may want to ponder: does responding to toxicity with toxicity release it from you, or does it encode it deeper in your behaviour and psyche?

What is the outcome you want to reach when you are deciding on your course of action? This should be considered too, alongside zooming out of the specific situation to a more general view of your life, the patterns in it and their consequences.

Hope this helps.

 

[Aquarius]

So stop sensing and start thinking, and Aquarius I don’t want you to reply to me again. You piss me off and everything you say is either disrespectful or just trolling.

If you want to hold high morals and make this place a better place you need to fucking fix your attitude and communication.

Tons of Zevists here replied to me and most were respectful even if disagreeing and criticizing me to a high degree. I respect that.

Not the first time you are disrespectful to High Priestess Lydia.

 

[Nikólaos666]

And who assigned you as the community lawyer when you’re reply is just low-quality trolling to look cool and make me look bad?

You’re not adding shit here gtfo

You looked bad by your own mean with what you have wrote here. I don't find Aquarius's reply more intelligent, by the way.

It wasn't great for him to post this but you did a terrible post yourself. We are here to help people not make them look foolish.

 

[Grimryper7]

You’re respectful and maybe you’re right. I haven’t familiarized myself with the new terms yet.

I honestly just saw this situation as emotional blackmail. It’s toxic and she’s crazy. So I just answered what I saw and from my experience, from my point of view I thought if someone’s manipulating, manipulate them back and get what you want in the end which is her just leaving. Surely it’s not that hard to get a girl to fall out of love and leave you.

I don’t get why this got so much hate it’s not rare to have someone try to emotionally blackmail even with suicide or whatever so you get the result you want in a different way.

Maybe I’m the one who’s been drowning in toxic relationships lol.

You guys are too perfect and ethical, maybe you’re the ones who are right. I’m comfortable with the toxicity honestly.

I think you and our High Priestess have good intentions with your guys advices. Maybe when HPS Lydia asks if your are even Zevist, maybe she wants you to reflect on what it means to be a Zevist?

What is Satya to you? Sure we aren't perfect but shouldn't we be strict on ourselves to an extent, with our ethics? Analyzing ourselves and striving for perfection? We should be abondoning the manipulative dishonest yehuboric ways for more honest, harmonious ways. I remember HPS Maxine saying one time that Father told her there are many ways to accomplish any goal.

 

[MercuryWisdom]

Not the first time you are disrespectful to High Priestess Lydia.

Literally when? Also, I just told you don’t reply to me.

I love how you are always there whenever I do something bad and you immediately reply. But anything good I do you immediately ignore it.

You were always there for any drama against me. But where are you when I for example wrote a poem for Goddess Hathor yesterday. Or any type of post you literally ignore it even on VT I say something good and you’re in the conversation you just ignore me even if I was replying to you.

You are literally a certified hater. Please stop replying to me.

 

[Chrysallida]

Besides the arguments and disagreements before, everyone forgot to tell a tip very important to OP.
If you're with someone that emotionally unstable (like attempting a suicide for breaking up), probably she was already showing up these signs before, way at the start of the relationship, maybe something about her parents, her friends, or her previous relationships was off. You can try some bindings, aura repulsion, other options presented to you to end the relationship, but don't forget about yourself. Ask yourself why you entered into this kind of relationship, how was it at the beginning, what made you attracted to her, what kind of person she is (do you like this kind of person?). All these questions are to make sure you don't fall for the same mistake again. I don't want to see another Zevist (are you a Zevist by the way?) ending up with a list of failed relationships, because sometimes they repeat the same mistakes.

All the members here were just trying to say is that you shouldn't breakup immediately with her, because since you said that she is suicidal, then obviously you can't take a decision too extreme (she thinks that life is all about you, neglecting herself). You have to go slow with her, make her realize that what she feels is not real love. She's behaving like a child, not accepting a no for an answer. Or, she's pretty manipulative and she knows what she is doing. It really depends on how she is, on what you know about her (friends, family, past relationships, interests). At the end, even if you try everything you can, If the bad and awful outcome happens, please don't guilt trip yourself. People should be responsible by their own decisions. You both are not siamese twins born together. Each one has a different mother and father (hopefully this isn't an incest case), different lives, different experiences, different struggles. What one solution might be for one relationship, may not work for another.

Here's some story about different situations (I'm just loving to write in this forum!):
I have an older brother (in his 50s) that repeated the mistake of having a suicidal girlfriend twice. I can remember him desperate calling up my mother in the middle of the night, because his girl was threatening to end up her life. A girl in her 40s, with a son starting to become a teenager. Her life was odd, making decisions out of nowhere, and always moving in and out with her mother from everywhere. Even my mother thinks that her son was born from interest, it looked like her mother tried to find a wealthy man for her to earn some rich child pension. She was also jealous of my brother's children (from a previous failed relationship), thinking that her son deserved better than them (that raised some red flags to him at first, thankfully).

My brother was trying to make her move to the country that he lives, many months trying to get a visa, passport. After many attempts, she said that maybe she needed to try to get the visa somewhere else. Since she always liked to post photos in Instagram (or Facebook?), my brother's friend recognized in the pictures one specific place. They found out that she traveled to other country, not the one that she told my brother.

After a while, she made an excuse that she had to stay there for a while. Time passed, and we saw that she was already engaged to someone else besides my brother. This girlfriend of his is the same that I said in another post that she was a new age witch, trying to make endless love spells to my brother. You can't imagine how much money my brother sent to that bitch. She rented the most expensive apartment at the whole town, wanted to furnish the place with everything new, while my brother's real family here was full in debt, counting pennies to buy food.

The other girlfriend he had trouble too. She was into drugs, needed psychiatric treatment too, but she wasn't the manipulative type. She threatened to end her life, but was trying to do it because she wasn't feeling well (she was switching meds, her life wasn't in the way as she intended, feeling guilt over many wrong decisions made). They got into an agreement (don't know how), and married (yes, in paper). Unlike the first case that we saw that the woman was clearly into money (only wanted to buy expensive stuff), this one preferred to be a stay at home, keeping the place tidy, and she wasn't jealous about my brother's children.

 

[Henu the Great]

Andrapoda approach because he’s dealing with a crazy toxic person. If you’re dealing with andrapoda, do you wanna send them the ethics page or what. Crazy girl gets crazy treatment.

No. As said multiple times by multiple members, there is Magick for this. Stop justifying this nonsense, and use your brain for a moment. No one said to "send them the ethics page". It was directed to you instead.

 

[Flamma Bellum]

Another one is:
“To break up a couple or deter a potential interest, you would put an aura of revulsion around the person you wish to isolate. For example, "[name of person]’s aura is repelling all of [name of person interested or in love with] interests, affection, and attraction in every way. [Name of person] is revolting and repulsive to [name of person interested or in love with]." You infuse the energy into the aura of the person you want to keep isolated from the one who has an interest. You get the basic idea. One’s aura will act on the other and create an indifference, or even enmity. It can take a lot of energy, but in breaking up a couple, you can do this to each of their auras so that they find each other disgusting and break up.”
- https://templeofzeus.org/Love_Spell.php

 

[High Priestess Lydia]

First of all as High Priestess, you can disagree with something I said and not just go ahead and doubt my Zevism or say I’m not spiritual. If you are wiser you can give me advice not just blind rage and hate. I’m actually disappointed in your judgement and going for just blind rage and childish gestures like oven or whatever.

I gave this advice because I see it all the time and it works. I’m a Zevist not a God and certainly not a beacon of light or whatever I’m not perfect like that.

This reply seems to have got you super emotional, maybe you experienced something similar in the past and that’s why you are lashing out so hard on a member who has proved loyalty and has been here for years and done tons of rituals and even was close to you at some point and looked for your consultations before.

It wasn't just about me disagreeing, it was me being shocked that a Zevist who has been here for as long as you have, would give such a toxic suggestion to another Zevist.

I grew up in a healthy home, my parents would also be shocked by toxicity, so my reaction was completely normal for me. My family has strong boundaries against that sort of behavior, and I will keep those boundaries to ensure all members here grow healthy.

I do this out of love for our entire community, and out of concern for those who still have some poison in their minds

 

[MercuryWisdom]

It wasn't just about me disagreeing, it was me being shocked that a Zevist who has been here for as long as you have, would give such a toxic suggestion to another Zevist.

I grew up in a healthy home, my parents would also be shocked by toxicity, so my reaction was completely normal for me. My family has strong boundaries against that sort of behavior, and I will keep those boundaries to ensure all members here grow healthy.

I do this out of love for our entire community, and out of concern for those who still have some poison in their minds

I did not grow up in a healthy home or had healthy relationships and probably won’t have anytime soon.

My chart is a magnet for problematic relationships anyway.

I just went through a break up recently and I’ll probably start dating more casually for fun only, with not much feelings involved so it’ll probably get worse but I’m okay with it since the experiences makes me learn and grow.

I apologize High Priestess if I was disrespectful I actually really like you and respect you.

I was just sharing my own point of view maybe I shared it in a way that would cause reactions. But my main point was to tell him, not to leave her immediately and cut ties because this would have her make reactions but to let her down slowly and have her get bored and leave instead. This is an indirect way of getting the same thing he wanted which I guess is not the mature answer of just being truthful.

 

[Eudora]

What should have been advice turned into an argument.

I've seen this in other threads, where a question is asked and suddenly everything veers off in a different direction. The priority here is the guidance and advice that was requested. As for everything else, it should be addressed appropriately.

Something like this happened to me in the past, and in my opinion, it's unpleasant. A thread meant to be for guidance suddenly becomes a discussion about who is andrapoda and who isn't.

I'm not saying this to be reproachful, but if there are any accusations or anything like that, a clarification is enough. Like the High Priestess did.

I'll use my own thread as an example, where a Guardian called me out on it, and that was it. I addressed it and corrected the issue. If this member continues with this behavior, it's best to escalate it properly.

Don't turn a guidance thread into a battleground.