Regarding the ethics on death and slaying

[Yurei]

So the ToZ website now has a section on death and slaying.

Death & Slaying Ethics

There's something I need to get off my chest here, specifically about suicide, euthanasia and killing with intent.
If someone was bullied and abused all their life by another party(s) then the victim fighting back and killing their tormentors, I assume this falls under the category of killing out of hate.
Which would mean by Ma'at's judgement the victim is "less than an andrapoda and an animal" and thus incurs weight on their heart (which I assume means gaining negative karma)
This is not justice. The argument I see being made here is "there is another way" and "you had a choice, something animals don't have yet you chose to be a violent savage"
This shifts the punishment onto the victim who fought back against what would have otherwise been inescapable abuse. Abuse that could have potentially led to escalation and ended with the abuse victim dying at the hands of the abuser. If there is a will to fight back, it should be expressed in the best way possible in accordance to the capacity of the abused.

Next, suicide.
Aside from Aristotles insensitive rhetoric against victims of suicide, why should punishment be incurred onto one who seeks to end their suffering when there's no other way or they don't have capacity or resources or connections for other ways?
If you truly believe, and I know some of you reading this genuinley do think: "well that's just nature, the strong thrive, the weak die, might makes right" then what's the big deal? If you believe they were too weak to deserve life, then aren't they just dying in accordance to the natural order of things by killing themselves? The gene pool self correcting.
Many suicidal people never asked to be born anyway.

Finally, euthanasia.
At first I did think there was a slippery slope in the ethics against Euthanasia. But with the rise of MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying) in Canada which made headlines in recent years along with cases like this: https://www.theguardian.com/society...thanasia-approval-grounds-of-mental-suffering
I can understand the argument against it.
However: if I were 100 years old, unable to walk, terminally bedridden, needed 24/7 care, on life support, in constant pain and unable to be administered opium due to it being illegal in certain places, that's not living. In this scenario "Do no harm" is actually causing more harm. Yes, the system is broken. Yes, without Yehuboric influence and the destructive energy of Izfet/Apep ruining lifes, this shouldn't be the case.
Medical technology should have reached a point where such suffering shouldn't exist. But that's not the world we live in.

This is just all I have been feeling since yesterday. I just wanted to share my thoughts and feelings.
I welcome any and all constructive input and advice as always.

 

[Eudora]

So the ToZ website now has a section on death and slaying.

Death & Slaying Ethics

There's something I need to get off my chest here, specifically about suicide, euthanasia and killing with intent.
If someone was bullied and abused all their life by another party(s) then the victim fighting back and killing their tormentors, I assume this falls under the category of killing out of hate.
Which would mean by Ma'at's judgement the victim is "less than an andrapoda and an animal" and thus incurs weight on their heart (which I assume means gaining negative karma)
This is not justice. The argument I see being made here is "there is another way" and "you had a choice, something animals don't have yet you chose to be a violent savage"
This shifts the punishment onto the victim who fought back against what would have otherwise been inescapable abuse. Abuse that could have potentially led to escalation and ended with the abuse victim dying at the hands of the abuser. If there is a will to fight back, it should be expressed in the best way possible in accordance to the capacity of the abused.

Well, it's all about balance. In my personal experience with abusers and with my parents, I often thought about causing harm and pain. But it always stemmed from the wound, from the emotional side. Despite all that, I knew deep down that I shouldn't act that way, because, well, the truth is, Yehuborism operates in the same way: emotionally, individually, and egoically.

There's always the choice to choose the opposite. The Gods at that time led me to a book, the laws of the Kybalion. Even though it contained Christian elements, with my limited understanding, I managed to grasp the principles of polarity and transmutation very well, which, in my case, were a perfect fit. I knew deep down that I didn't want a massacre with black magic, just for emotional reasons; I knew there was something more.

The Gods, in their immense wisdom, guided me in the process of ascension in these matters, helping me climb the ladder of strength to continue my spiritual path from a different perspective. So, for a long time, I took the time to heal my traumas and wounds and begin to understand chaos and ignorance from a different perspective.

Knowledge is important for understanding; true understanding elevates us and allows us to embody the Gods.

I know there are new terms for this, but I stand by what I wrote back then.

These are laws that help us improve, and we improve the environment along the way. Whether we agree or not, it's sometimes an emotional experience, but I know from my own experience that the restoration and creation of my inner world was worth more than thinking about death for my tormentors.

Because this creation of mine, this spiritual effort, no one can take from me. Likewise, I think that on many occasions, taking the path of destruction is much easier than the path of construction. The world and the laws of the Gods, even in their very nature, contain the creation of all kinds.

Sometimes it's hard for us to understand this, and at that time I didn't have that knowledge. When it was posted, I understood why the Gods decided to guide me down a path other than that of killing out of hatred. I followed laws I didn't even know, only their wisdom in the best way I could understand it.

I'm sharing this so you can understand and see firsthand some aspects of my personal journey. Because perhaps more than one of you is experiencing the same thing and knows that the guidance of the Gods is fundamental in this.

This is my experience. I hope it helps you understand something.

Finally, if there are any grammatical errors, I apologize. I speak Spanish

 

[Carnifex Law]

You raise valid points. What bothered me mostly was the taxative statements on euthanasia. Someone fully paralised should have the right to medically assisted suicide in my view, thats not living at all.

 

[Wotanwarrior]

How did an executioner handle the karma of death when he had to do his job and execute criminals who had committed horrendous crimes, and I'm referring to before the Abrahamic religions appeared?

Also, the karma of suicide in the case that you have made a will wishing to receive euthanasia in the event that you become completely and irreversibly paralyzed and also have no earthly family.

 

[coral__]

So the ToZ website now has a section on death and slaying.

Death & Slaying Ethics

There's something I need to get off my chest here, specifically about suicide, euthanasia and killing with intent.
If someone was bullied and abused all their life by another party(s) then the victim fighting back and killing their tormentors, I assume this falls under the category of killing out of hate.
Which would mean by Ma'at's judgement the victim is "less than an andrapoda and an animal" and thus incurs weight on their heart (which I assume means gaining negative karma)
This is not justice. The argument I see being made here is "there is another way" and "you had a choice, something animals don't have yet you chose to be a violent savage"
This shifts the punishment onto the victim who fought back against what would have otherwise been inescapable abuse. Abuse that could have potentially led to escalation and ended with the abuse victim dying at the hands of the abuser. If there is a will to fight back, it should be expressed in the best way possible in accordance to the capacity of the abused.

Next, suicide.
Aside from Aristotles insensitive rhetoric against victims of suicide, why should punishment be incurred onto one who seeks to end their suffering when there's no other way or they don't have capacity or resources or connections for other ways?
If you truly believe, and I know some of you reading this genuinley do think: "well that's just nature, the strong thrive, the weak die, might makes right" then what's the big deal? If you believe they were too weak to deserve life, then aren't they just dying in accordance to the natural order of things by killing themselves? The gene pool self correcting.
Many suicidal people never asked to be born anyway.

Finally, euthanasia.
At first I did think there was a slippery slope in the ethics against Euthanasia. But with the rise of MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying) in Canada which made headlines in recent years along with cases like this: https://www.theguardian.com/society...thanasia-approval-grounds-of-mental-suffering
I can understand the argument against it.
However: if I were 100 years old, unable to walk, terminally bedridden, needed 24/7 care, on life support, in constant pain and unable to be administered opium due to it being illegal in certain places, that's not living. In this scenario "Do no harm" is actually causing more harm. Yes, the system is broken. Yes, without Yehuboric influence and the destructive energy of Izfet/Apep ruining lifes, this shouldn't be the case.
Medical technology should have reached a point where such suffering shouldn't exist. But that's not the world we live in.

This is just all I have been feeling since yesterday. I just wanted to share my thoughts and feelings.
I welcome any and all constructive input and advice as always.

The thing is: avoid harming another at all costs.

I agree with you that the victim of abuse should not be blamed or considered guilty for what they had to endure... But I don't see why in that case is not to be considered self-defense.
When they say that we should not harm and we should avoid war and slaying at all costs it is because we are supposed to act upon our ethics and according to the Tenets of the Gods.
We are better than mindless andrapodas.
The victim must be helped and they should receive an offer to be helped, or at least this is what I think

Same thing with suicide: I understand why someone who takes their life would be considered "weak". But that person needs to be helped or at least it's important to try to make the person regain their mind as they probably have fallen into a deep deluded state.
I am not in any way saying that the pain they are feeling is stupid or exaggerated.
But there are endless reasons to stay in this life and that person must try to see them.
Especially we Zevists, we have all the tools to uplift our mood. It can be hard and difficult but it must be done.
If you can't run, walk; if you can't walk, crawl but by all means keep going forward.
I also it can come down to gratitude: it could always be worse than your actual situation but it isn't. There are so many things that one have in this life and so many things that they will have in the future. There are also, always, people that are willing to listen and to help them get through whatever they are going through.
It's weaker and more selfish to take your life despite knowing this.
Is it really and act of freedom or an act for finding peace if your going to spread the pain all over your environment and if you take away the chance to change your destiny from your own self?
Is it really freedom and peace seeking when you are only letting down everyone who was there for you at your lowest? Aren't those the people who truly can be considered friends, lovers and family?
These people deserve to live. No one is saying that they're too weak to deserve life.
These people are born and they're existence has a point even though they might stop seeing it.
Someone wanted that person here, someone felt that their presences is needed in this world too.
Taking your life is only going to carry karma into the next, and in the next one if you kill yourself again... Do you see the vicious cycle?

I am saying this as a person that was suicidal and attempted 2 times.

 

[coral__]

The thing is: avoid harming another at all costs.

I agree with you that the victim of abuse should not be blamed or considered guilty for what they had to endure... But I don't see why in that case is not to be considered self-defense.
When they say that we should not harm and we should avoid war and slaying at all costs it is because we are supposed to act upon our ethics and according to the Tenets of the Gods.
We are better than mindless andrapodas.
The victim must be helped and they should receive an offer to be helped, or at least this is what I think

Same thing with suicide: I understand why someone who takes their life would be considered "weak". But that person needs to be helped or at least it's important to try to make the person regain their mind as they probably have fallen into a deep deluded state.
I am not in any way saying that the pain they are feeling is stupid or exaggerated.
But there are endless reasons to stay in this life and that person must try to see them.
Especially we Zevists, we have all the tools to uplift our mood. It can be hard and difficult but it must be done.
If you can't run, walk; if you can't walk, crawl but by all means keep going forward.
I also it can come down to gratitude: it could always be worse than your actual situation but it isn't. There are so many things that one have in this life and so many things that they will have in the future. There are also, always, people that are willing to listen and to help them get through whatever they are going through.
It's weaker and more selfish to take your life despite knowing this.
Is it really and act of freedom or an act for finding peace if your going to spread the pain all over your environment and if you take away the chance to change your destiny from your own self?
Is it really freedom and peace seeking when you are only letting down everyone who was there for you at your lowest? Aren't those the people who truly can be considered friends, lovers and family?
These people deserve to live. No one is saying that they're too weak to deserve life.
These people are born and they're existence has a point even though they might stop seeing it.
Someone wanted that person here, someone felt that their presences is needed in this world too.
Taking your life is only going to carry karma into the next, and in the next one if you kill yourself again... Do you see the vicious cycle?

I am saying this as a person that was suicidal and attempted 2 times.

There are a few grammar errors, pardon me

 

[Desdemona_666]

I agree, especially with euthanasia. I refuse to just accept that being bedridden and in agony from a horrible disease for which there’s no cure means you must shut up and suffer until the death decides it’s time.

Going out on your own terms should be allowed to people in this case.

 

[Forores [NG]]

1. It is not killing out of hate to bring justice against an aggressor or a Yehuborim. A killing out of hate, spite or jealousy would be if one chose to curse another without provocation or a sound reason. That means just because one doesn't like another it's not a good reason to curse him to death. It is well explained the parameters in which one should bring justice* against his aggressor.

2. Just because one thinks he doesn't have the energy to continue or that it's not worth it anymore, it doesn't mean he is right. As it was said, our bodies are gifts from the Gods. We do not live only for ourselves, but for others too. I know people who tried to commit suicide, even from my family, but they didn't succeed and they were happy for that. They have reevaluated their decisions and asked for help. A person who wants to commit suicide, is most of the time, just seeking help desperately, but are too afraid or ashamed to ask for it (or they don't know where to find it). Solutions exist. But one is still free to do it if he chooses so.

3. Why do you think a person who still lives trough such agonies, as you described them, is not yet dead? The reason is found within the question itself. And to be more precise, because the soul is not yet ready to depart from the body. If the body is killed before the soul is ready to go, the link is severed before its time. That person may not realize he died, he can become a ghost or be trapped somewhere. Or maybe even worse, some damage can take place at the level of the soul.

 

[Carnifex Law]

1. It is not killing out of hate to bring justice against an aggressor or a Yehuborim. A killing out of hate, spite or jealousy would be if one chose to curse another without provocation or a sound reason. That means just because one doesn't like another it's not a good reason to curse him to death. It is well explained the parameters in which one should bring justice* against his aggressor.

2. Just because one thinks he doesn't have the energy to continue or that it's not worth it anymore, it doesn't mean he is right. As it was said, our bodies are gifts from the Gods. We do not live only for ourselves, but for others too. I know people who tried to commit suicide, even from my family, but they didn't succeed and they were happy for that. They have reevaluated their decisions and asked for help. A person who wants to commit suicide, is most of the time, just seeking help desperately, but are too afraid or ashamed to ask for it (or they don't know where to find it). Solutions exist. But one is still free to do it if he chooses so.

3. Why do you think a person who still lives trough such agonies, as you described them, is not yet dead? The reason is found within the question itself. And to be more precise, because the soul is not yet ready to depart from the body. If the body is killed before the soul is ready to go, the link is severed before its time. That person may not realize he died, he can become a ghost or be trapped somewhere. Or maybe even worse, some damage can take place at the level of the soul.

Point 3 is a collection of bold conjectures. medically assisted death is not gonna harm the soul anymore than the suffering the person goes through in extreme cases. But you are free to stand for whatever you believe in.

 

[Deep Darkness]

You raise valid points. What bothered me mostly was the taxative statements on euthanasia. Someone fully paralised should have the right to medically assisted suicide in my view, thats not living at all.

Agreed, euthanasia might be problematic in modern Western world, Canada example, but it is not always totally wrong. Many ancient tribes used it.