Question #941: Doubts about handling of the donations topic

[Ask Satya Operator]

I have never donated, but I'm going to do it really soon. I've already sent out the money, now I'm just waiting for bureaucracy to work and get my Bitcoins.
I decided to donate because I truly believe in our cause and I can see how the money is needed, it's only right that we can donate to JoS, and it's honorable to do so.
My pet peeve is how we're motivated to do it. Lately, I've seen HPZM speaking in a pretty guilt-tripping way, in my honest opinion.
For people who have already donated this won't be a problem, but for me, who never donated but was literally minutes away from starting the process to donate for the first time, reading stuff like "Thanks for ACTING", referred to people who never donated yet, almost made me change my mind about it.
I felt horrible reading that, because it was very guilt-tripping, and again, I was just about to donate, so technically I had nothing to feel guilty of.
I still decided to donate anyway, for the reasons I've stated before, I just wish HPZM handled the thing differently.
Also, and what I'm about to say might be very upsetting, it's hard to not see a bad pattern with the new Tier Rewards stuff, because that sounds scarily like how Scientology operates.
But again, I know it's only fair that the people who have donated receive some sort of compensation for their help and effort. Twitch streamers and all sort of businesses act like that, and I don't get upset about it, why would I be upset when JoS does the same? I guess it is because I am still far behind on my Zevism, and I struggle to see the value, and I am scared and insecure about everything, but I want to fix that, really now. I started hitting the gym after a life of lazyness and I want to reach "mens sana corpore sano".
I guess my questions are: isn't the guilt-trip avoidable? Do you think I'm over-reacting? Wouldn't it be better, and work better, if we extensively told people why to donate instead of how useless they are if they never did yet? Maybe someone has trusting issues.
It pains me to question someone like HPZM's words, but I think that as Spiritual Satanists we should always be doubtful and question everything instead of following anything like sheeps. If we'd do that, we'd be no better than the xtians. Also, it is doubting and questioning that got many of us here in the first place.

 

[Head Guardian Sophiles Phylax]

...

The compassionate and patient strategy had already been employed, and continues to be employed in the form of free knowledge and support. Unfortunately, this has led to an insufficient amount of donations to fund future projects, such as advertisement campaigns, or the ever-growing requirements of the JoS websites.

Most people already grasp the reasons why we need to donate. Combine this with the fact of people taking from JoS and not giving back, and this is why it becomes appropriate to remind everyone that the financial position of JoS is not optional to our success. That is why different strategies have to be employed, even if they appear as distressing.

The source of the stress is not HPZM himself, but the future of JoS if it does not get what it needs. Taking your analogy of a twitch streamer, they would also become stressed if their future was at stake, especially if they had been streaming freely for 10 years.

All relationships work on a mutual basis, not just those of Scientology. You receive based on what you invest. In this case, HPZM is not asking you to bankrupt yourself, nor is he giving out fraudulent rewards, like Scientology. There is a big difference here.

Don't feel bad about asking honest questions, although be mindful that trolls abuse and ruin the act of questioning for everyone.

 

[Ol argedco luciftias]

Any action that is helpful is absolutely necessary, and everybody needs to do something. Not everybody has to donate, and many people can't donate because they have very little money and are barely surviving.

But there are many other actions that could be done. Like working to educate people, sharing information, and answering people's questions. Completing translation projects. Doing the Rituals and rituals for the gods. Or anything that improves this world, solves problems, and makes everyone's life better. Contribute any way that you are able to help our people and help our world.

All of these actions are necessary, and it is necessary for there to be people doing all of these actions. Each of us will do the tasks that we are individually better or more capable at doing. Like I can't do Russian translations because I don't speak Russian, but I try to help a lot by answering people because that is what I'm better at, and doing the rituals.

We all have to act and participate in helping in whatever way we can.

 

[High Priest Zevios Metathronos]

... I guess it is because I am still far behind on my Zevism, and I struggle to see the value, and I am scared and insecure about everything, but I want to fix that, really now. I started hitting the gym after a life of lazyness and I want to reach "mens sana corpore sano".
I guess my questions are: isn't the guilt-trip avoidable? Do you think I'm over-reacting? Wouldn't it be better, and work better, if we extensively told people why to donate instead of how useless they are if they never did yet? Maybe someone has trusting issues.
It pains me to question someone like HPZM's words, but I think that as Spiritual Satanists we should always be doubtful and question everything instead of following anything like sheeps. If we'd do that, we'd be no better than the xtians. Also, it is doubting and questioning that got many of us here in the first place.

First of I want to say thank you for overcoming these fears and the feeling of irrational and reactive "guilt" which are essentially pointless and a product of not having a very firm Satanic mentality yet.

Essentially that is you being a sheep to your own "doubts" and self guilt tripping, however that is kind of explained psychologically over what you explained in regards to your overall mentality.

If certain people cannot handle that we have to grow and improve ourselves, and actually survive in a brutal world, and that cutting wood is part of building the village, and that if we don't then we will die off and perish, and you consider this "guilt tripping" except of reality, there is not much I can do for you.

If someone tells you "go to the gym or you will be sick" and you consider this guilt tripping, then you are actually on a lesser level of understanding.

Do you understand that the fact you will be fat and have issues with your health and someone telling you that is not part of guilt tripping but based on the observation of reality?

What you feel is a reaction to your own insecurity around the fact, more than the fact that you have been told.

If anyone has problems please leave the process to the real men and women who want to do this but please don't cast pointless doubts on me for doing what is necessary for us to evolve.

At the evolving aspect of things, we need everything and every form of power, or we won't advance and evolve. I won't allow the temple of the Gods to fall because of the "guilt" and other uncontrollable emotions of anyone.

Yes you are over-reacting because of poor understanding. I am here doing the walk everyday, and doing endless work.

The only type of guilt I have personally is for not always doing more for the Gods and our people, that is all. I would never feel guilt tripped over the fact that I had to do the absolute minimal of any form of contribution to keep the place I love the most alive.

 

[High Priest Zevios Metathronos]

...
You also have to recognize that HP Zevios Metathronos has spent endless resources, time and care on people who are often extremely ungrateful, turned out to be lunatics, terminally lazy and traitors (this includes basically a third of the former priesthood), or just ended up going off the deep end due to being the child to some insane forum user's Pied Piper. I have seen so much shit like this over the years, behavior that even put me off when exhibited by self proclaimed 'advanced' members, I can't fathom how he even even dealt with all of it.
...

I withstood this all and way more because of love for the Gods and the community and just staying focused on what we can objectively become.

I have actually seen the worst but I can only contrast it now that we have the better.

Basically all elder members will understand why I do what I do, especially those from circa 2000 or 2004 who can comprehend where we were, and where we are now, and where we will be in the future.

Finally yes, I have spent more resources than anyone else, spiritual or material, to attain these ends for the benefits of the Gods and the people that want to follow them.

For all that I can say you understand me really well, and thank you for this.

 

[BigBeaver]

... I guess it is because I am still far behind on my Zevism, and I struggle to see the value, and I am scared and insecure about everything, but I want to fix that, really now. I started hitting the gym after a life of lazyness and I want to reach "mens sana corpore sano".
I guess my questions are: isn't the guilt-trip avoidable? Do you think I'm over-reacting? Wouldn't it be better, and work better, if we extensively told people why to donate instead of how useless they are if they never did yet? Maybe someone has trusting issues.
It pains me to question someone like HPZM's words, but I think that as Spiritual Satanists we should always be doubtful and question everything instead of following anything like sheeps. If we'd do that, we'd be no better than the xtians. Also, it is doubting and questioning that got many of us here in the first place.

First of I want to say thank you for overcoming these fears and the feeling of irrational and reactive "guilt" which are essentially pointless and a product of not having a very firm Satanic mentality yet.

Essentially that is you being a sheep to your own "doubts" and self guilt tripping, however that is kind of explained psychologically over what you explained in regards to your overall mentality.

If certain people cannot handle that we have to grow and improve ourselves, and actually survive in a brutal world, and that cutting wood is part of building the village, and that if we don't then we will die off and perish, and you consider this "guilt tripping" except of reality, there is not much I can do for you.

If someone tells you "go to the gym or you will be sick" and you consider this guilt tripping, then you are actually on a lesser level of understanding.

Do you understand that the fact you will be fat and have issues with your health and someone telling you that is not part of guilt tripping but based on the observation of reality?

What you feel is a reaction to your own insecurity around the fact, more than the fact that you have been told.

If anyone has problems please leave the process to the real men and women who want to do this but please don't cast pointless doubts on me for doing what is necessary for us to evolve.

At the evolving aspect of things, we need everything and every form of power, or we won't advance and evolve. I won't allow the temple of the Gods to fall because of the "guilt" and other uncontrollable emotions of anyone.

Yes you are over-reacting because of poor understanding. I am here doing the walk everyday, and doing endless work.

The only type of guilt I have personally is for not always doing more for the Gods and our people, that is all. I would never feel guilt tripped over the fact that I had to do the absolute minimal of any form of contribution to keep the place I love the most alive.

Mmm... the thing is this donation urgency stuff came very recently while most of the JoS existence barely talked about donations.
Of course I am not insulting you and I know that probably you hit some roadblocks and it was neccessary to change your policy the thing is this change came too sudently and it was kinda expected to have these type of reactions, even I was something like ''what the hell'' because from all the years I been on the forum I barely seen you talked about donations.
I wonder if you started announcing the donation policy much earlier while putting in application in the same period as now the reaction would had been more accepting and different?
Even so, I am glad that JoS is moving forward.

 

[Retrospect]

... I guess it is because I am still far behind on my Zevism, and I struggle to see the value, and I am scared and insecure about everything, but I want to fix that, really now. I started hitting the gym after a life of lazyness and I want to reach "mens sana corpore sano".
I guess my questions are: isn't the guilt-trip avoidable? Do you think I'm over-reacting? Wouldn't it be better, and work better, if we extensively told people why to donate instead of how useless they are if they never did yet? Maybe someone has trusting issues.
It pains me to question someone like HPZM's words, but I think that as Spiritual Satanists we should always be doubtful and question everything instead of following anything like sheeps. If we'd do that, we'd be no better than the xtians. Also, it is doubting and questioning that got many of us here in the first place.

First of I want to say thank you for overcoming these fears and the feeling of irrational and reactive "guilt" which are essentially pointless and a product of not having a very firm Satanic mentality yet.

Essentially that is you being a sheep to your own "doubts" and self guilt tripping, however that is kind of explained psychologically over what you explained in regards to your overall mentality.

If certain people cannot handle that we have to grow and improve ourselves, and actually survive in a brutal world, and that cutting wood is part of building the village, and that if we don't then we will die off and perish, and you consider this "guilt tripping" except of reality, there is not much I can do for you.

If someone tells you "go to the gym or you will be sick" and you consider this guilt tripping, then you are actually on a lesser level of understanding.

Do you understand that the fact you will be fat and have issues with your health and someone telling you that is not part of guilt tripping but based on the observation of reality?

What you feel is a reaction to your own insecurity around the fact, more than the fact that you have been told.

If anyone has problems please leave the process to the real men and women who want to do this but please don't cast pointless doubts on me for doing what is necessary for us to evolve.

At the evolving aspect of things, we need everything and every form of power, or we won't advance and evolve. I won't allow the temple of the Gods to fall because of the "guilt" and other uncontrollable emotions of anyone.

Yes you are over-reacting because of poor understanding. I am here doing the walk everyday, and doing endless work.

The only type of guilt I have personally is for not always doing more for the Gods and our people, that is all. I would never feel guilt tripped over the fact that I had to do the absolute minimal of any form of contribution to keep the place I love the most alive.

Mmm... the thing is this donation urgency stuff came very recently while most of the JoS existence barely talked about donations.
Of course I am not insulting you and I know that probably you hit some roadblocks and it was neccessary to change your policy the thing is this change came too sudently and it was kinda expected to have these type of reactions, even I was something like ''what the hell'' because from all the years I been on the forum I barely seen you talked about donations.
I wonder if you started announcing the donation policy much earlier while putting in application in the same period as now the reaction would had been more accepting and different?
Even so, I am glad that JoS is moving forward.

That's funny I remember when the urgency was final Ritual spamming the Rituals. Also it was probably easier back then for members to donate because PayPal was used. Now with the Bitcoin alot of us are figuring out for first time how to do it, so it is a shift from what we were used to.