Honest skeptic. Help please.

[RJ]

Hi,

First and foremost, I have to let you know that I intend no disrespect with my questions. I wouldn't be here if I weren't interested in this, and I have better things to do with my time than antagonize people on the internet.

I'll try to make this brief. I was raised Christian and have come to despise all faith. Through thinking for myself and discovering the history of the sun-God/Zodiac myth, I have come to reject Christianity and every other "right hand path" religion. What worries me about Satanism is not that "it's evil" or "your soul will belong to the Devil" or anything like that -- it's what I see in the dedication rituals, etc. I've noticed none of the dedications mention specific "deities" other than "the nazarene."

Why do the dedications involve rejecting only one specific deity? Are dedication rituals different in other parts of the world?

I have no problem rejecting these deities, but that is my decision and in the name of me. I am not sure if I could bring myself to say "I reject the JHVH in the name of Satan" - and mean it.

I will also admit that I am a skeptic. I don't take this stuff lightly, but I would rather know more about what I'm getting into, and have more proof, before I make a commitment signed in blood.

I hope that this doesn't sound arrogant - and if it is, I beg your indulgence. Anybody who can give me a bit of guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[Jade Repaye]

Well a person should find out as much as possible for decicating youself to 1 belief. Or else you will remain unsure AND remain skeptical no matter what you do. So it is good to not ' Walk in blind ' so to speak.
So ask all the questions you need to from pretty much ANYONE from Joy of Satan and read and researdh the net as much as possible to find the answers you are looking for.
And you are correct. This is not the ONLY such group and some other groups may have or have found different types of Rites or Dedication that what is mostly shown or advised on Joy of Satan.
Who is to tell you which way is the right way? When it comes down to it, what is it EXACTLY that turned you away from your Christianity in the 1st place?
I do not want you to think that this is like Christianity where we are all separate. Other Satanic groups have people of whom come onto Joy of Satan and share their knowledge of what they have learned, know or where to direct you to the knowlege they want to share with ALL Santanists.

Now, in Christianity, I know things have become quite a bit more modern over the last 40 years. I am a 45 year old female and was Christian. I was Roman Catholic. I don't know if you know this or not but it seems to me that you should. But I will tell you in case if you don't mind too much.

I was born into a very large really strong COMMITTED Roman Catholic family. I mean I was an only child but I was surrounded by all of my Mother and Father's sisters, brothers, older 1st cousins, 1st cousins my age, 1st cousins younger than me and them a whole passel of 2nd, 3rd and some 4th cousins. I lived in a small community and the people there were almost all related to me. And ALL very very Roman Catholic.

Whithout them? The Roman Catholic Church there would have not been so powerfull. Of course I became baptized there. Then when I was 4 I recievied my 1st communion.

Do you want to KNOW what THAT was like if you don't already? I remember it so clearly. I came home from Roman Catholic School which I'd been part of since age 3. I went to my bed-room to change as always. I screamed! LOL! ( I guess even then I had a fear of Marriage ) Giggle!
For there on my bed was what looked to be the smallest Wedding dress and accesories imaginable. My exact size. Giggle! I still remember the older ladies in the family tell me that if a boy even touched my hand, I would get pregnant and have to Marry the boy/man. ( Unless it was family of course but before and when you are only 4 you don't usually think of that )
I had snuck down to the secret swimming hole the day befiore and there were ' Other' children there. We'd played as many land and water games as possibe from soccor to water volley ball. Naturally, you are going to come into contact with the otheres.
A boy had accidently hurt my hand and lifted it to chech it out.
Well when I saw that ' Wedding dress,' I was positive that my parents found out that a boy touched my hand, that I was pregnant and that I was going to have to Marry that boy! Giggle! ( He probably is the one I SHOULD have married. LOL! I might still be married. Giggle!)
My Mother came running into my room and she thought my scream had been one of delight. She said," Isn't it beautiful. I can't wait to see how it fits you and to see how I will do your hair and you can show your Father how you look before chaning into your after school cloths."
While I was feeling mortified, there she was with this big grin on her face and I wondered to myself if the boy was a magical prince or something for her to be so pleased and my Father not out there murdering the boy instead of waiting to see what I looked like in a Wedding dress.
If you will, use your imagination please to find how I could be so distressed at all this.
My Maternal Grand-Mother/God-Mother was over for tea. I was SURE she would be able to get me out of this mess. I was so happy to see her. Before trying the dress on as my Mother told me to, I said," Would you send Grand Ma Ma in 1st please? SHE can help me if I have trouble."
She came into my room with 2 cups of tea and scones. As soon as she closed the door she took out cigarettes and a lighter and said," Here moi chit bebé, I took these from your Grand Papa while he sleeps so that you could have 1." ( It was not so unusual then )
I threw myself into her arms crying," Grand Ma Ma, I don' want to marry that boy so and so, he is creepy and smells! Please don't let them make me marry him!"
My Grand-Mother laughed and said," So you will not marry this boy. Wait till you are older and in love. Now lets get this dress fitted on you."
Damn was I ever puzzled!
She told me I didn't have to marry this boy but I still had to try on the dress? Why?


It was explained that durring my up coming Communion, I was to wear this dress as I was making a VOW to God and to our Jesus Christ! That it was similar to getting married in that it was my ' COMMITTMENT ' to GOD and JESUS.

Well, there you go. I was suppose to blindly do all I was told only on their basis and that of the Roman Catholic Church. Without any different ways or ideas being shown to me 1st so that I would know if I wanted this committment that sounded like a marriage to me until I would fall in love and then able to marry a Corpial being.

But I was ex-communicated by the Priest by the time I was 15 and if you are interested in why, I will tell you. It will also help you see what it is you truly want. But I can assure you it was not because I was bad or had mis-behaved or in that matter done anything wrong at all! Not even according to the Bible!

So check out all the sites that other members from the group have posted and follow those links to find more aswers and hopefully lower your skeptisism.

Someone once told me that we all need something to bellieve in or we fall apart as a whole. I beleive him. Now, ( R. I. P to that man )

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[RJ]

Hello,

Thanks for the responses. I am extremely happy that I was not encouraged to give up on my skepticism! Let it be known that as of now I do fully intend to go through on this path. I still have some questions regarding my own personal journey to the gate, though.

First, I do have an understanding of the nasty, diabolical stranglehold "Xianity" has over our culture. I hate their sun-god myth and I hate that the vast majority of people have not noticed the pattern. Having grown up in it and learned the truth, "hate" doesn't even cover it. And I recognize the psychological warfare element - my hate for Xianity sometimes borders on mindless fury - evidence of some kind of subconscious fear somewhere, I guess. =/ The things they do to a human being's mind... I wish I had words.

But that's why I asked if dedication rituals were different elsewhere. In Saudi Arabia, the culture is not overrun with Xianity but with Islam, so I'm guessing the dedication ritual for a Saudi Arabian would involve an explicit rejection of Allah/Mohammed. Yes?

Anyway, here is what I was considering. Perhaps you can tell me if this would be acceptable.

I was told by someone else on JoS it would be acceptable to summon Enki, as he is very friendly and understanding, and that I do not need to be dedicated to do this - and I could simply ask questions. Elsewhere, I read that Enki is synonymous with Satan himself, and I've also read that it is extreme blasphemy to try to summon Satan himself... so I'm a bit confused. There are so many people saying so many different things about all of this, it's got my head spinning. My main concern is safety, as I'm sure you can understand! I wouldn't want to expose myself to a Demon and offend it, nor expose myself to a Demon that could hurt me if I am not already dedicated/protected. I feel I suck at doing my job here and getting my own facts straight, for myself; but there doesn't seem to be a single agreed-upon authority...

I'll try to make this brief now. I was considering summoning Ashtaroth:

-For experiential proof of the reality of what I'm getting into
-To ask how to benefit from Her (His?) creative genius, especially in music; also, possibly to ask Her (Him?) to be my guide/Guardian
-To ask Her personally what type of dedication, if any, She and/or Satan requires.

I have GREAT respect for spiritual powers, and I do not want to go into this unprepared. What do you think about this approach? Thanks!

--- In , Jade Repaye <starry757@... wrote:

Well a person should find out as much as possible for decicating youself to 1 belief. Or else you
will remain unsure AND remain skeptical no matter what you do. So it is good to not ' Walk in blind
' so to speak.
So ask all the questions you need to from pretty much ANYONE from Joy of Satan and read and researdh
the net as much as possible to find the answers you are looking for.
And you are correct. This is not the ONLY such group and some other groups may have or have found
different types of Rites or Dedication that what is mostly shown or advised on Joy of Satan.
Who is to tell you which way is the right way? When it comes down to it, what is it EXACTLY that
turned you away from your Christianity in the 1st place?
I do not want you to think that this is like Christianity where we are all separate. Other Satanic
groups have people of whom come onto Joy of Satan and share their knowledge of what they have
learned, know or where to direct you to the knowlege they want to share with ALL Santanists.

Now, in Christianity, I know things have become quite a bit more modern over the last 40 years. I
am a 45 year old female and was Christian. I was Roman Catholic. I don't know if you know this or
not but it seems to me that you should. But I will tell you in case if you don't mind too much.

I was born into a very large really strong COMMITTED Roman Catholic family. I mean I was an only
child but I was surrounded by all of my Mother and Father's sisters, brothers, older 1st cousins,
1st cousins my age, 1st cousins younger than me and them a whole passel of 2nd, 3rd and some 4th
cousins. I lived in a small community and the people there were almost all related to me. And ALL
very very Roman Catholic.

Whithout them? The Roman Catholic Church there would have not been so powerfull. Of course I
became baptized there. Then when I was 4 I recievied my 1st communion.

Do you want to KNOW what THAT was like if you don't already? I remember it so clearly. I came home
from Roman Catholic School which I'd been part of since age 3. I went to my bed-room to change as
always. I screamed! LOL! ( I guess even then I had a fear of Marriage ) Giggle!
For there on my bed was what looked to be the smallest Wedding dress and accesories imaginable. My
exact size. Giggle! I still remember the older ladies in the family tell me that if a boy even
touched my hand, I would get pregnant and have to Marry the boy/man. ( Unless it was family of
course but before and when you are only 4 you don't usually think of that )
I had snuck down to the secret swimming hole the day befiore and there were ' Other' children there.
We'd played as many land and water games as possibe from soccor to water volley ball. Naturally,
you are going to come into contact with the otheres.
A boy had accidently hurt my hand and lifted it to chech it out.
Well when I saw that ' Wedding dress,' I was positive that my parents found out that a boy touched
my hand, that I was pregnant and that I was going to have to Marry that boy! Giggle! ( He probably
is the one I SHOULD have married. LOL! I might still be married. Giggle!)
My Mother came running into my room and she thought my scream had been one of delight. She said,"
Isn't it beautiful. I can't wait to see how it fits you and to see how I will do your hair and you
can show your Father how you look before chaning into your after school cloths."
While I was feeling mortified, there she was with this big grin on her face and I wondered to myself
if the boy was a magical prince or something for her to be so pleased and my Father not out there
murdering the boy instead of waiting to see what I looked like in a Wedding dress.
If you will, use your imagination please to find how I could be so distressed at all this.
My Maternal Grand-Mother/God-Mother was over for tea. I was SURE she would be able to get me out of
this mess. I was so happy to see her. Before trying the dress on as my Mother told me to, I said,"
Would you send Grand Ma Ma in 1st please? SHE can help me if I have trouble."
She came into my room with 2 cups of tea and scones. As soon as she closed the door she took out
cigarettes and a lighter and said," Here moi chit bebé, I took these from your Grand Papa while he
sleeps so that you could have 1." ( It was not so unusual then )
I threw myself into her arms crying," Grand Ma Ma, I don' want to marry that boy so and so, he is
creepy and smells! Please don't let them make me marry him!"
My Grand-Mother laughed and said," So you will not marry this boy. Wait till you are older and in
love. Now lets get this dress fitted on you."
Damn was I ever puzzled!
She told me I didn't have to marry this boy but I still had to try on the dress? Why?


It was explained that durring my up coming Communion, I was to wear this dress as I was making a VOW
to God and to our Jesus Christ! That it was similar to getting married in that it was my '
COMMITTMENT ' to GOD and JESUS.

Well, there you go. I was suppose to blindly do all I was told only on their basis and that of the
Roman Catholic Church. Without any different ways or ideas being shown to me 1st so that I would
know if I wanted this committment that sounded like a marriage to me until I would fall in love and
then able to marry a Corpial being.

But I was ex-communicated by the Priest by the time I was 15 and if you are interested in why, I
will tell you. It will also help you see what it is you truly want. But I can assure you it was
not because I was bad or had mis-behaved or in that matter done anything wrong at all! Not even
according to the Bible!

So check out all the sites that other members from the group have posted and follow those links to
find more aswers and hopefully lower your skeptisism.

Someone once told me that we all need something to bellieve in or we fall apart as a whole. I
beleive him. Now, ( R. I. P to that man )

===
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[Anti]

Enki is Satan, Enki's Sanskrit name was SATANAMA (Sa=Life, Ta=Truth, Na=Death, and Ma=Rebirth) the authors of the bible cut his name short at death and branded him "the adversary." I would say to hold off on summoning until you're dedicated.

--- In , "RJ" <rjedars@... wrote:

Hi,

First and foremost, I have to let you know that I intend no disrespect with my questions. I wouldn't be here if I weren't interested in this, and I have better things to do with my time than antagonize people on the internet.

I'll try to make this brief. I was raised Christian and have come to despise all faith. Through thinking for myself and discovering the history of the sun-God/Zodiac myth, I have come to reject Christianity and every other "right hand path" religion. What worries me about Satanism is not that "it's evil" or "your soul will belong to the Devil" or anything like that -- it's what I see in the dedication rituals, etc. I've noticed none of the dedications mention specific "deities" other than "the nazarene."

Why do the dedications involve rejecting only one specific deity? Are dedication rituals different in other parts of the world?

I have no problem rejecting these deities, but that is my decision and in the name of me. I am not sure if I could bring myself to say "I reject the JHVH in the name of Satan" - and mean it.

I will also admit that I am a skeptic. I don't take this stuff lightly, but I would rather know more about what I'm getting into, and have more proof, before I make a commitment signed in blood.

I hope that this doesn't sound arrogant - and if it is, I beg your indulgence. Anybody who can give me a bit of guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[Eli Ashtaroth]

This is a catch-22 though. Maybe my attitude needs adjusting... dunno. If I can't get experiential proof that what I'm getting into is what I really want, or that it's even real, I feel I shouldn't be signing my name in blood... sort of a "buyer beware." At the same time, though, it seems you're telling me I can't find out what I'm getting myself into until I get myself into it.

Is there no safe way to communicate with a Goetia Demon without being dedicated?

Now, as to Jade's post:

I have many personal problems against Christianity, a few paralleling your own. I, however, was raised fundamentalist/Baptist/fire-and-brimstone. Their main tool was fear. No, not fear - terror. Many many times I became convinced I had not prayed for "salvation" correctly, and every time a doubt would enter my mind I felt compelled to run away from it, deny it happened, pray it away, and fear for my soul. I was terrified of Hell, terrified God had not "elected" me to be "saved", just afraid and guilty at all times. It took a very long time, and quite a few altercations (including violence from one of the holiest church members, etc etc etc etc), for me to finally admit to myself that in my heart, I did not believe the things they were telling me. Once that happened, the floodgates opened and I began researching Xianity from sources OTHER than the Bible. I found the Jesus story was just another adaptation of the pervasive sun-God myth, and began a "Crusade" (God I hate that word) against the lies of all Religion. In my journey I noticed that faith is a destructive tool of control, and refused to put my faith in anything, ever again, without some sort of reason. My quarrel against Xianity is the same as my quarrel with all faith: it replaces logic and science, it is arrogant, and it benefits only those in power. So while I have been hurt by religion, I've got no (or very little) selfish motivation for working against it. I hate what it does to society. As was mentioned in an earlier post, can you imagine where we'd be if not for the Xian Dark Ages? We'd probably be exploring the galaxy by now!

But anyway, I'm not stupid enough to dismiss the idea of spirituality. I have had spiritual experiences in the past, and I think it's only fair to give everything a chance; and if there is evidence, to believe in it. That is why I am here, but this idea that I must dedicate myself before it proves itself to be true is disappointing! Hopefully you'll forgive this comparison, but it reminds me of the exact problem I have with Faith - sort of putting the cart before the horse.

Is there nothing I can do here? I don't want to put the cart before the horse; because if I did a dedication ritual now, it would be hollow and meaningless. And I will not chance lying to a Demon.

How about a Circle? I know it's been said the Circles are very offensive to Demons, but would a Circle protect me, and do you think the Demon would understand I am just trying to be safe?

I dunno. =/ Is there any other way that I'm not thinking of? Perhaps a third-party approach where someone else invokes the Demon and I speak to the Demon through them?

This is really frustrating. I am seeking a change in my life, real spiritual power, advancement, and a community of others united against these RHP religions. I just wish I could somehow know the truth BEFORE I accept it. Please tell me I can.

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[DerekD]

As a former xian, I think I can respect your general position and I would say Satanism is most certainly not about blind faith. If you're not ready to dedicate, maybe you should just do the Satanic meditations for the current time before deciding on doing a dedication. The results of those meditations might give the proof you seek. Meditation does, after all, increase spiritual awareness.

You definitely shouldn't use the circle method though! If you want to be friends with the demons, you need to treat them with a similar kind of respect that you would give any of your other friends. Wouldn't your friends be insulted if you treated them like they were bad or going to hurt you? Keep in mind too that these circles were used by those that abused demons. You don't want to be associated with that, do you?

Also, look back on your life. Can you think of any signs that indicate you were meant to take this path? I can think of at least one very blatant example that I was meant to be a Satanist. Although, just because you may not have received any signs, that doesn't mean you should not necessarily pursue Satanism.

Besides that, you should probably be reading the www.templeofzeus.org site if you haven't. If you have a serious interest in a religion like ours, you should be willing to do some research. Otherwise, what's the point? Feel free to investigate other sources of information too. Satanism is about free thought, inquiry, and investigation. I see no reason why Satan wouldn't respect your desire for proof.

Good luck! May you find the truth!

--- In , Eli Ashtaroth <rjedars@... wrote:

This is a catch-22 though. Maybe my attitude needs adjusting... dunno. If I can't get experiential
proof that what I'm getting into is what I really want, or that it's even real, I feel I shouldn't
be signing my name in blood... sort of a "buyer beware." At the same time, though, it seems you're
telling me I can't find out what I'm getting myself into until I get myself into it.

Is there no safe way to communicate with a Goetia Demon without being dedicated?

Now, as to Jade's post:

I have many personal problems against Christianity, a few paralleling your own. I, however, was
raised fundamentalist/Baptist/fire-and-brimstone. Their main tool was fear. No, not fear - terror.
Many many times I became convinced I had not prayed for "salvation" correctly, and every time a
doubt would enter my mind I felt compelled to run away from it, deny it happened, pray it away, and
fear for my soul. I was terrified of Hell, terrified God had not "elected" me to be "saved", just
afraid and guilty at all times. It took a very long time, and quite a few altercations (including
violence from one of the holiest church members, etc etc etc etc), for me to finally admit to myself
that in my heart, I did not believe the things they were telling me. Once that happened, the
floodgates opened and I began researching Xianity from sources OTHER than the Bible. I found the
Jesus story was just another adaptation of the pervasive sun-God myth, and began a "Crusade" (God I
hate that word) against the lies of all Religion. In my journey I noticed that faith is a
destructive tool of control, and refused to put my faith in anything, ever again, without some sort
of reason. My quarrel against Xianity is the same as my quarrel with all faith: it replaces logic
and science, it is arrogant, and it benefits only those in power. So while I have been hurt by
religion, I've got no (or very little) selfish motivation for working against it. I hate what it
does to society. As was mentioned in an earlier post, can you imagine where we'd be if not for the
Xian Dark Ages? We'd probably be exploring the galaxy by now!

But anyway, I'm not stupid enough to dismiss the idea of spirituality. I have had spiritual
experiences in the past, and I think it's only fair to give everything a chance; and if there is
evidence, to believe in it. That is why I am here, but this idea that I must dedicate myself before
it proves itself to be true is disappointing! Hopefully you'll forgive this comparison, but it
reminds me of the exact problem I have with Faith - sort of putting the cart before the horse.

Is there nothing I can do here? I don't want to put the cart before the horse; because if I did a
dedication ritual now, it would be hollow and meaningless. And I will not chance lying to a Demon.

How about a Circle? I know it's been said the Circles are very offensive to Demons, but would a
Circle protect me, and do you think the Demon would understand I am just trying to be safe?

I dunno. =/ Is there any other way that I'm not thinking of? Perhaps a third-party approach where
someone else invokes the Demon and I speak to the Demon through them?

This is really frustrating. I am seeking a change in my life, real spiritual power, advancement, and
a community of others united against these RHP religions. I just wish I could somehow know the truth
BEFORE I accept it. Please tell me I can.

===
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[Mitchell1]

You're right to not want to perform what you called a "hollow" ritual. As we've said, the intent is what's important, so if you aren't sure it's pointless anyway.
Do not use a circle as they are very offensive and you could seriously come to physical harm. Satan is who you should go to for initial help as Demons can be unfriendly to humans. Even Goetic Demons have caused trouble for outsiders attempting contact. However, if you feel you must communicate with a Demon or Demoness it is important to treat them with extreme respect and never try to make demands or threats. Remember what forces you're dealing with here, and also that these are REAL beings with feelings and minds of their own. Do not fear them, but do show the respect due to them. They are as we desire to be; Gods. They won't necessarily kill you as soon as look at you, but understand that they've been tormented, enslaved and blasphemed by generation upon generation of people. There was a time when humans existed alongside the Gods, and could go right up and speak with them if they so desired. Sadly, this is no longer the case.
People have become so detached from the old Gods and ways that they don't realize everything that was once sacred has been corrupted and reflected into mockery or blasphemy. A large portion of people now curse the Gods and what they stand for. It makes sense then, for them to be wary when offering us help.
Overall my advice to you would be to skip the actual contact as well as dedication and all of that for now and focus on clearing your mind of baggage and empowering yourself. Introspection is key when making difficult decisions such as the ones you are currently facing. Do not expect too much, or too little, or much of anything for that matter, when communicating to the Gods.
Remember also that a great deal of power is required for many of the things which you would need for a true "summoning" type of experience to occur: Telepathy, empathy, astral consiousness(i.e. sight, sound, etc.) and simple bioelectric capacitance just to name a few. This can't be done in a day, or a week. Don't expect to be flinging cars around with your mind in a month or two, but steady, disciplined meditation coupled with focused direction of energy will produce noticable results over time and I know from experience.
It is very hard in the beginning as you're a blind man in a forest so to speak when it comes to a lot of things. Do not give up or feel guilty about not being better than you are. As long as you are actively trying to improve in some way, be it physical, mental, or spiritual, eventually you will be able to do anything you desire to do.

--- In , Eli Ashtaroth <rjedars@... wrote:

This is a catch-22 though. Maybe my attitude needs adjusting... dunno. If I can't get experiential
proof that what I'm getting into is what I really want, or that it's even real, I feel I shouldn't
be signing my name in blood... sort of a "buyer beware." At the same time, though, it seems you're
telling me I can't find out what I'm getting myself into until I get myself into it.

Is there no safe way to communicate with a Goetia Demon without being dedicated?

Now, as to Jade's post:

I have many personal problems against Christianity, a few paralleling your own. I, however, was
raised fundamentalist/Baptist/fire-and-brimstone. Their main tool was fear. No, not fear - terror.
Many many times I became convinced I had not prayed for "salvation" correctly, and every time a
doubt would enter my mind I felt compelled to run away from it, deny it happened, pray it away, and
fear for my soul. I was terrified of Hell, terrified God had not "elected" me to be "saved", just
afraid and guilty at all times. It took a very long time, and quite a few altercations (including
violence from one of the holiest church members, etc etc etc etc), for me to finally admit to myself
that in my heart, I did not believe the things they were telling me. Once that happened, the
floodgates opened and I began researching Xianity from sources OTHER than the Bible. I found the
Jesus story was just another adaptation of the pervasive sun-God myth, and began a "Crusade" (God I
hate that word) against the lies of all Religion. In my journey I noticed that faith is a
destructive tool of control, and refused to put my faith in anything, ever again, without some sort
of reason. My quarrel against Xianity is the same as my quarrel with all faith: it replaces logic
and science, it is arrogant, and it benefits only those in power. So while I have been hurt by
religion, I've got no (or very little) selfish motivation for working against it. I hate what it
does to society. As was mentioned in an earlier post, can you imagine where we'd be if not for the
Xian Dark Ages? We'd probably be exploring the galaxy by now!

But anyway, I'm not stupid enough to dismiss the idea of spirituality. I have had spiritual
experiences in the past, and I think it's only fair to give everything a chance; and if there is
evidence, to believe in it. That is why I am here, but this idea that I must dedicate myself before
it proves itself to be true is disappointing! Hopefully you'll forgive this comparison, but it
reminds me of the exact problem I have with Faith - sort of putting the cart before the horse.

Is there nothing I can do here? I don't want to put the cart before the horse; because if I did a
dedication ritual now, it would be hollow and meaningless. And I will not chance lying to a Demon.

How about a Circle? I know it's been said the Circles are very offensive to Demons, but would a
Circle protect me, and do you think the Demon would understand I am just trying to be safe?

I dunno. =/ Is there any other way that I'm not thinking of? Perhaps a third-party approach where
someone else invokes the Demon and I speak to the Demon through them?

This is really frustrating. I am seeking a change in my life, real spiritual power, advancement, and
a community of others united against these RHP religions. I just wish I could somehow know the truth
BEFORE I accept it. Please tell me I can.

===
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[Death]

Honestly I belive the blood and Saying this is for Satan is a way to reprogram your "energy and for protection" I came to relize that satanism is not a boxed up nice packaged religon but a thought of a way of life.....I mean think about your life from begging to end and all of the middle of course its is complecated and hard then take everything you ever knew and known all memories and events that happen to u good, bad, or whatever and think about what truly influnced them. Then sprinkle in what you do not even know, what your going to learn, then past, present,and future. Then add in everyone who you ever came in contact with and everyone you will be in contact with your entire lifespan. Not such a cut and dry answer, with that how could anyone even complete a sentence with that. Were they your thoughts or were they someone elses projected to u. Then think someone else could be controling it and your helpless. Ever gotten a craving for a big mac you can taste it, you want it, but its your thought right. Ever gotten that dramic craving over something you make. Truly think about what has really influneced your life for every waking breathe who are u really, are u you, or are u a though living your life for someone elses reasons. There is a thought that will drive u mad. Its the truth and it the reason I became Satanistic. I'm not saying it's not a religon im just way out of the box on alot of things so it hard for me to put something in a nice box when im talking about everything. I can not even say it transformed me but it is I who transformed me. I am Satanism I stand for truth and love and the hope of a free spirt. With that I respect all Demons, Gods, and Father Satan for it is with there love and support I follow like I should and find myself in a tough love sort of way, all "Family" wants to see there "child" go forth and do well. I do not want to confuse u. This just comes from the heart. As for proof just look and feel. If you made it this far then u feel what most of us feel after a while. This is not a sight for rejects or last resorts of religion this is a place for answers and rebirth into the way it is suppose to be. Take a look at the most spirtual peeps u know. What do they look like, pasty and plastic or do they have a peaceful look and seem fullfilled make a jugdement on something u feel and see. I like proof I made it a lifes mission to never stop asking questions. I have to keep looking for the truth...........I finally have peace but I still have questions. So dear, I wish you the best. All the love and help in the world to help u on your way. Hope you find what makes you breathe easy.
Hail Satan

--- In , "Anti" <prophetburner@... wrote:

Enki is Satan, Enki's Sanskrit name was SATANAMA (Sa=Life, Ta=Truth, Na=Death, and Ma=Rebirth) the authors of the bible cut his name short at death and branded him "the adversary." I would say to hold off on summoning until you're dedicated.

--- In , "RJ" <rjedars@ wrote:

Hi,

First and foremost, I have to let you know that I intend no disrespect with my questions. I wouldn't be here if I weren't interested in this, and I have better things to do with my time than antagonize people on the internet.

I'll try to make this brief. I was raised Christian and have come to despise all faith. Through thinking for myself and discovering the history of the sun-God/Zodiac myth, I have come to reject Christianity and every other "right hand path" religion. What worries me about Satanism is not that "it's evil" or "your soul will belong to the Devil" or anything like that -- it's what I see in the dedication rituals, etc. I've noticed none of the dedications mention specific "deities" other than "the nazarene."

Why do the dedications involve rejecting only one specific deity? Are dedication rituals different in other parts of the world?

I have no problem rejecting these deities, but that is my decision and in the name of me. I am not sure if I could bring myself to say "I reject the JHVH in the name of Satan" - and mean it.

I will also admit that I am a skeptic. I don't take this stuff lightly, but I would rather know more about what I'm getting into, and have more proof, before I make a commitment signed in blood.

I hope that this doesn't sound arrogant - and if it is, I beg your indulgence. Anybody who can give me a bit of guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[johnshuman2000]

I am of the same opinion you are. I also have a similar indoctrination history as yours, and rejected it for various reasons I will not get into here for the sake of brevity.
I also have not done the dedication for not having proof. That said, I am also quite psychic and do some "projective awareness" exploring. I have had a very few psychic realm sightings of beings that MAY be the ones termed the gods/Nordics/Anunaki on this group. I wasn't able to communicate and therefore couldn't ask questions. The few I have seen were nonhuman but human like. They seemed to have human like emotional expression (smiles, frowns,etc.) as oposed to almost everything else I've seen in this way. The psychic vision stuff, while very intriguing and suggestive,does not constitute full proof though. Without physical feedback, it is difficult to tell where psychic vision and imagination are seperate. However, I and a few others I know have had real experiences with assorted nonhuman physical intelligent beings, but not the Nordic/gods. Humans able to physically enter their space (by spacecraft, teleportation, or other) could take pictures, get samples (with their consent of course), and have conversations. On their side however, all of these things act like a psychic link and could facilitate psychic attack on them, the coda her is Satan and company were the losers in an old war in which although they were the good guys, they were outnumbered at least and forced to flee. It is also possible that our science may not recognize proof if we saw it. We might not be able to verify that we are genetically related. Also there is the real possibility that those doing the science will be compelled to falsify their results.

--- In , "RJ" <rjedars@... wrote:

Hi,

First and foremost, I have to let you know that I intend no disrespect with my questions. I wouldn't be here if I weren't interested in this, and I have better things to do with my time than antagonize people on the internet.

I'll try to make this brief. I was raised Christian and have come to despise all faith. Through thinking for myself and discovering the history of the sun-God/Zodiac myth, I have come to reject Christianity and every other "right hand path" religion. What worries me about Satanism is not that "it's evil" or "your soul will belong to the Devil" or anything like that -- it's what I see in the dedication rituals, etc. I've noticed none of the dedications mention specific "deities" other than "the nazarene."

Why do the dedications involve rejecting only one specific deity? Are dedication rituals different in other parts of the world?

I have no problem rejecting these deities, but that is my decision and in the name of me. I am not sure if I could bring myself to say "I reject the JHVH in the name of Satan" - and mean it.

I will also admit that I am a skeptic. I don't take this stuff lightly, but I would rather know more about what I'm getting into, and have more proof, before I make a commitment signed in blood.

I hope that this doesn't sound arrogant - and if it is, I beg your indulgence. Anybody who can give me a bit of guidance would be much appreciated.