Homosexuality

[Djinn Draconis]

Abelardo Cabrera III: That is right. People keep saying "it's in the Soul it's in the Soul!" And thinking that means it's impossible to change. When the Soul, being of the 4th dimension is obviously more
easily altered and changed than the body of this 3rd dimension, even the 'positive - negative' 'male - female' polarity can be changed. There are several whole chapters on it in Franz Bardons Initiation Into Hermetics. I have never on any other subject heard everyone say something being in the soul mean it's impossible to change.

And as I mentioned in a previous post there is such a thing as biokinesis, which allows one to consciously alter their genes. I also suggested another possible reason why most people incarnate as the same gender usually.

--- In , Abelardo Cabrera III wrote:

Why would the Gods of Elysium limit us with staying one gender? What if we get tired of being a "Man" or being a "Woman" then what it would not be fair to the Children of Satan to keep them playing one gender. Doesn't Satan and the Demons want to see Different things happen and leave it up to the individual to be what they want to be even if it is really changing who they are playing a new thing say new music or new race or something different in general. Satan is about limitlessness and no boundries. It makes no sense to me to play as a "Masculine Soul" for eternity why shouldn't I be given the Choice to change into a "Feminine Soul? Doesn't Satan want to see a "New Me" every once in a while? I doubt that people cannot "reverse their sexual roles". Father Satan is just too loving and too kind to place limitations on his children. Don't you agree?

 

[Sean John]

There is nothing to correct because this is true.I've done everythig I could to get in touch to my spiritual side and based on my own conclusions on my own profile I get positive feedback even get respect from people easily but not noticed in a sexual way because I'm working on all parts of myself. Could it be that I'm working on too many things all at once and overwhelming myself?

 

[Djinn Draconis]

keeperofstone: Baphomet doesn't have to live a life on earth in it's current state surrounded by human beings and at the mercy of societies judgement lol. Baphomet isn't going to high school, making friends, finding love/sex partners, finding a job etc as a half goat, half human, hermaphrodite on planet Earth.

--- In , "keeperofstone" wrote:



Does Baphomet need an operation??? Is Baphomet doomed or something to aspire to spiritually? Maybe the answer to this whole dicourse is in studying Baphomet.

Hail Satan

--- In , "Djinn Draconis" wrote:

So where does biokinesis come into all this? If it's possible to bring your consciousness to the point of influencing and controlling your own genes, then surely it is possible to choose your gender in the next life if you wish?

If someone is born as hermaphrodite and has to go through operations to live a normal life, are they then doomed to continuously come back as hermaphrodite for example?

Also, I know it is true almost everyone is the same gender in all their lives but that could be because if someone is strongly identified as their gender as almost everyone is, believes strongly beyond any doubt they are that gender and that will never change, as almost everyone does once again, then of course they are not going to incarnate as the opposite gender, everyone's energies are very intensely programmed to be as their gender.

I am not saying this is true, but it is an equally valid hypothesis as to why almost everyone is the same gender they was in past lives.



--- In , "Zevios Metathronos" wrote:

Gender does not change throughout lifetimes. There are men who are feminine in their behavior, and there are men that are musculine. Same with women, there are feminine women and musculine women. In terms of behavior, soul, thinking and all this. I could never believe that one can in past lifetimes be another gender, it just feels wrong to me and except of that, I have enought knowledge to know differently.

Being homosexual hasn't got to do with your gender, but your polarity but something else deeper too. So as it has been said its in the psyche.

For instance one can be a man with a musculine prone tendency. He isn't nessescarily searching for a female or male. Just someone who is female *^in terms of Soul polarity. Correction. Whether gender the male would want, as a partner, is a whole different thing again in the Soul, but its more than just polarity. Its in the setup. Homosexuals are as natural as Heterosexuals. Homosexuality occurs in animals. Bisexuality is also natural.


My other post had a mistake, so this is a repost.


HAIL SATAN!!!!!!!!


HAIL SATAN!!!!!

--- In , Thomas Schweitzer wrote:

Yup, I can confirm this as well.

Hail Satan!

Pe 26-jan.-2013, la 23:30, Forums Contributor a scris:

I note with homosexual men and women. There are Yin and Yang behaviours and people. One of my close family members is Gay, his partner is very femine and he is very masculine. Yin and Yang. This is because this principal plays out across the board in nature among heterosexuals as well. Not do any past lives as the opposite sex nonsense.

From: Forums Contributor
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:26:54 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

Having looked into past lives. I have been a male in them. You're right this nonsense is jew aged.

From: Siatris Teloah
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:25:14 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

I agree with the NO. I feel that I am a masculine male soul, and I believe that this type of philosophy comes from jew age books, like that ugly bitch sylvia browne stain.

From: Forums Contributor
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

No.


"A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women...."

From: Abelardo Cabrera III
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:02:30 PM
Subject: RE: Homosexuality

A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women". Science proves it these people are in no way shape or form a detriment to society. It in no way shape or form messes them up while completing spiritual assignments on Earth be it Satanism or RHP stuff for Outsiders.

 

[ga6riell6raga6]

Forget what I've said. It's because I understood you meant that "straight" was the same as "heterosexual".

 

[Montgomery]

What about the intersexed and trans people?

From: Zevios Metathronos <Zevios Metathronos@...
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

  Gender does not change throughout lifetimes. There are men who are feminine in their behavior, and there are men that are musculine. Same with women, there are feminine women and musculine women. In terms of behavior, soul, thinking and all this. I could never believe that one can in past lifetimes be another gender, it just feels wrong to me and except of that, I have enought knowledge to know differently.

Being homosexual hasn't got to do with your gender, but your polarity but something else deeper too. So as it has been said its in the psyche.

For instance one can be a man with a musculine prone tendency. He isn't nessescarily searching for a female or male. Just someone who is female *^in terms of Soul polarity. Correction. Whether gender the male would want, as a partner, is a whole different thing again in the Soul, but its more than just polarity. Its in the setup. Homosexuals are as natural as Heterosexuals. Homosexuality occurs in animals. Bisexuality is also natural.

My other post had a mistake, so this is a repost.

HAIL SATAN!!!!!!!!

HAIL SATAN!!!!!

--- In , Thomas Schweitzer wrote:

Yup, I can confirm this as well.

Hail Satan!

Pe 26-jan.-2013, la 23:30, Forums Contributor a scris:

I note with homosexual men and women. There are Yin and Yang behaviours and people. One of my close family members is Gay, his partner is very femine and he is very masculine. Yin and Yang. This is because this principal plays out across the board in nature among heterosexuals as well. Not do any past lives as the opposite sex nonsense.

From: Forums Contributor
To: ""
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:26:54 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

Having looked into past lives. I have been a male in them. You're right this nonsense is jew aged.

From: Siatris Teloah
To: ""
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:25:14 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

I agree with the NO. I feel that I am a masculine male soul, and I believe that this type of philosophy comes from jew age books, like that ugly bitch sylvia browne stain.

From: Forums Contributor
To: ""
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

No.


"A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women...."

From: Abelardo Cabrera III
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:02:30 PM
Subject: RE: Homosexuality

A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women". Science proves it these people are in no way shape or form a detriment to society. It in no way shape or form messes them up while completing spiritual assignments on Earth be it Satanism or RHP stuff for Outsiders.

 

[ga6riell6raga6]

No, you're wrong about "heterosexual." This is the same case in chemistry.
A mixture is "heterogeneous" when substances are clearly separable and distinct "homogeneous" when they are equal. Therefore, a relationship is "heterosexual" when individuals are of different genres and is "homosexual" when they are the same gender.

--- In , Light Yagami wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but personally I find the word "straight" quite offensive.
The word "straight" instead of "heterosexual" indicates that the other party (homosexuals, bisexuals etc) are more or less not "straight" (as in not "right" or "correct" or "normal" or whatever...). I just felt like pointing this out.

Now, for homosexual *men*, I had seen an interesting documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9WKW6fw7I4 (it's cartoon and small in time, but quite educative) which I found really helpful in a way.
Moreover, there could be psychological reasons as well (for example an abusive mother/father or a bad experience etc etc).


Personally, I like the thought of all individuals being more or less "bisexual", hehe..
Because that way, no one would think bad of no one.

Regarding past lives, I had read from people here that they were a male in their past lives and now that they are women they feel attracted in other women or things like that, but I don't believe this is always the case.



________________________________
Î`πο: hailazazel
Προς:
Στάλθηκε: 2:25 μ.μ. Παρασκευή, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2013
Θέμα: [JoyofSatan666] Homosexuality


 
First, I have nothing against homosexuals, and I understand it's completely normal. I ask out of pure curiosity.
What has to do with homosexuality? What makes someone straight / homosexual? Does it has to do with the planets? With your natal chart?
Does it has to do with the soul? Or maybe with your genes?
For instance, I'm a straight guy. Was I straight in my past lives also?
Or maybe I was a homosexual women? How does it actually works?

HAIL SATAN!!

 

[Light Yagami]

Eh, you got me confused... I was wrong about what? The word "straight" literally means the things I mentioned.
Απο: ga6riell6raga6 <gabriellbraga@...
Προς: Light Yagami <tapapakiastinseira@...;
Στάλθηκε: 7:50 μ.μ. Δευτέρα, 28 Ιανουαρίου 2013
Θέμα: Re: Σχετ: [JoyofSatan666] Homosexuality

No, you're wrong about "heterosexual." This is the same case in chemistry.
A mixture is "heterogeneous" when substances are clearly separable and distinct "homogeneous" when they are equal. Therefore, a relationship is "heterosexual" when individuals are of different genres and is "homosexual" when they are the same gender.

--- [/IMG], Light Yagami  wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but personally I find the word "straight" quite offensive.
The word "straight" instead of "heterosexual" indicates that the other party (homosexuals, bisexuals etc) are more or less not "straight" (as in not "right" or "correct" or "normal" or whatever...). I just felt like pointing this out.

Now, for homosexual *men*, I had seen an interesting documentary:Β <a rel="nofollow" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9WKW6fw7I4 (it's cartoon and small in time, but quite educative) which I found really helpful in a way.
Moreover, there could beΒ psychologicalΒ reasons as well (for example an abusive mother/father or a bad experience etc etc).

Personally, I like the thought of all individuals being more or less "bisexual", hehe..
Because that way, no one would think bad of no one.

Regarding past lives, I had read from people here that they were a male in their past lives and now that they are women they feel attracted in other women or things like that, but I don't believe this is always the case.

________________________________
  Ξ`ΟΞΏ: hailazazel
Ξ ΟΞΏΟ: <a rel="nofollow">
Ξ£ΟάλθηκΡ: 2:25 ΞΌ.ΞΌ. Ξ Ξ±ΟΞ±ΟκΡυΞ�, 25 ΞΞ±Ξ½ΞΏΟ…Ξ±ΟΞ―ΞΏΟ… 2013
ΞΞ­ΞΌΞ±: [JoyofSatan666] Homosexuality

Β 
First, I have nothing against homosexuals, and I understand it's completely normal. I ask out of pure curiosity.
What has to do with homosexuality? What makes someone straight / homosexual? Does it has to do with the planets? With your natal chart?
Does it has to do with the soul? Or maybe with your genes?
For instance, I'm a straight guy. Was I straight in my past lives also?
Or maybe I was a homosexual women? How does it actually works?

HAIL SATAN!!

 

[Djinn Draconis]

En Haradren Amlug: There is nothing wrong with wanting to know but most of us here simply DON'T KNOW and people are stating all kinds of stuff without proof, only to be told arrogantly they are wrong by others who also don't have any proof for their claims.

If anyone here does know they haven't explained exactly how, as I mentioned in my post there are alternative explanations as to why almost everyone is the same gender in all there lives other than that being the only possibility, such as most people being strongly identified as their gender and it being inconceivable to them that they could be anything else. So no other impressions are made on their life energies.

Secondly it doesn't take into account biokinesis or the fact that the male - female (positive - negative or electric - magnetic) polarity of the soul can be changed at will and it's explained very precisely how to do so in Initiation Into Hermetics.

And it doesn't consider the fact the Gods and advanced humans in the past such as Pharaos can shape shift their astral bodies into entirely different creatures, so if it's possible to do that surely it's possible to change sex from lifetime to lifetime, since the physical body is only a reflection of the energies and impressions on the soul "astral body".

Additionally, the spirit (different to the soul) is sexless and not even bound to any species or even any color or shape or size.

Don't get me wrong, I do not know the answer with 100% certainty myself but I have no reason to accept anyone else does unless they can answer all of the above things I mentioned.

--- In , "En Haradren Amlug" wrote:

Some people simply like to know. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to learn. Knowledge is power. How can we aspire to be as the Gods are without wanting to learn of all aspects of ourselves.
You might not want to know or care, but others do. If you don't simply don't bring an input to the topic.

-En Haradren Amlug.

--- In , "keeperofstone" wrote:




Homosexuality; IS.

Hetrosexuality; IS.

Bi-Sexuality; IS.

Trans-Sexuality; IS.

Satanist accept it all and that is what IS.

Do we really need to know: Who, What. Where, When and Why?

I say No.

It's just IS.

Hail Satan

--- In , Siatris Teloah wrote:

This is allegorical, like the masculine and feminine aspects of the soul, which we all have within us.



________________________________
From: keeperofstone
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality


 



Does Baphomet need an operation??? Is Baphomet doomed or something to aspire to spiritually? Maybe the answer to this whole dicourse is in studying Baphomet.

Hail Satan

--- In mailto:, "Djinn Draconis" wrote:

So where does biokinesis come into all this? If it's possible to bring your consciousness to the point of influencing and controlling your own genes, then surely it is possible to choose your gender in the next life if you wish?

If someone is born as hermaphrodite and has to go through operations to live a normal life, are they then doomed to continuously come back as hermaphrodite for example?

Also, I know it is true almost everyone is the same gender in all their lives but that could be because if someone is strongly identified as their gender as almost everyone is, believes strongly beyond any doubt they are that gender and that will never change, as almost everyone does once again, then of course they are not going to incarnate as the opposite gender, everyone's energies are very intensely programmed to be as their gender.

I am not saying this is true, but it is an equally valid hypothesis as to why almost everyone is the same gender they was in past lives.



--- In mailto:, "Zevios Metathronos" wrote:

Gender does not change throughout lifetimes. There are men who are feminine in their behavior, and there are men that are musculine. Same with women, there are feminine women and musculine women. In terms of behavior, soul, thinking and all this. I could never believe that one can in past lifetimes be another gender, it just feels wrong to me and except of that, I have enought knowledge to know differently.

Being homosexual hasn't got to do with your gender, but your polarity but something else deeper too. So as it has been said its in the psyche.

For instance one can be a man with a musculine prone tendency. He isn't nessescarily searching for a female or male. Just someone who is female *^in terms of Soul polarity. Correction. Whether gender the male would want, as a partner, is a whole different thing again in the Soul, but its more than just polarity. Its in the setup. Homosexuals are as natural as Heterosexuals. Homosexuality occurs in animals. Bisexuality is also natural.


My other post had a mistake, so this is a repost.


HAIL SATAN!!!!!!!!


HAIL SATAN!!!!!

--- In mailto:, Thomas Schweitzer wrote:

Yup, I can confirm this as well.

Hail Satan!

Pe 26-jan.-2013, la 23:30, Forums Contributor a scris:

I note with homosexual men and women. There are Yin and Yang behaviours and people. One of my close family members is Gay, his partner is very femine and he is very masculine. Yin and Yang. This is because this principal plays out across the board in nature among heterosexuals as well. Not do any past lives as the opposite sex nonsense.

From: Forums Contributor
To: "mailto:"
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:26:54 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

Having looked into past lives. I have been a male in them. You're right this nonsense is jew aged.

From: Siatris Teloah
To: "mailto:"
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:25:14 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

I agree with the NO. I feel that I am a masculine male soul, and I believe that this type of philosophy comes from jew age books, like that ugly bitch sylvia browne stain.

From: Forums Contributor
To: "mailto:"
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Homosexuality

No.


"A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women...."

From: Abelardo Cabrera III
To: mailto:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:02:30 PM
Subject: RE: Homosexuality

A homosexual is someone who used to be A Woman or Man in Past Life Incarnations on Earth and is now playing A New Role you know the different gender the used to be and still need adequate time to fully transition into their roles as "New Men" or "New Women". Science proves it these people are in no way shape or form a detriment to society. It in no way shape or form messes them up while completing spiritual assignments on Earth be it Satanism or RHP stuff for Outsiders.

 

[Perry Davidson]

hey there [/IMG] [/TD]<td class="y[/IMG][/TD]<td class="y[/IMG] [/TD][/TR]<tr class="y[/IMG]<td colspan="3" style="font-fa[/IMG][/TD][/TR][/TABLE] how do i forget about it? will Satan really help me and fix me back up?
can someone answer me please?

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Forums Contributor <mageson6666@... wrote:

  <var></var>Yes and what happened the last time. Clergy had to step in and correct the misinfo parade you and other wished to get rolling. With you more then once I believe.  You can jump up and down and proclaim this till the end of time. Which you do at any chance for some reason. You specifically have a near pathological fixation on running in and putting out misinfomation. Based on dubious claims of experimental knowledge which is open to many influences and can not be taken as literal. Especially considering your other bizzare and outlandish claims. Such misinformation opens up the door to many nuts, fruits and trolls to run in and poison the well of true knowledge and mislead people.  But you always want to lead others on your garden path to delusion. Misery loves company. You where warned before about this behaviour.  
  
    From: darrklady13 <darkladyschild@...;
To: ;
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:26:25 PM

<td style="font:[/IMG]  
This subject has been addressed before.
Many of us here disagree on whether we can reincarnate into male or female bodies in the physical body.

I personally KNOW I WAS A MALE IN PREVIOUS LIVES, as well as female.

I've been coming to this planet for quite a while, and Im quite frankly, tired of it!

I was about 3 or 4 yrs old in THIS lifetime, and asked my mother if I was male or female.
She said, your a girl.

I said, NO!!! I don't want to be a girl!! Boys get to have better things!!! I want to be a boy!!!

Of course my mother looked at me like I was nuts....it happened often growing up.

although my mother was a spiritualist herself, she was surprised at how I didn't want to be female at such a young age.

There are those here obviously, who believe it isn't the case that we incarnate through different genders.
I say, believe as you wish!! I know my own experiences in past life regression. I've been doing this type of thing since I was 17, and I am now 45.

I have never heard in all my years of studying, reading, meditation, regression....that WE ONLY INCARNATE in the same gender every time.
Only in this forum, have I heard it.

--- [/IMG], Abelardo Cabrera III wrote:

I'm sorry but being a Man of Satan for eternity wouldn't be fair for Satan because he doesn't want limits he wantschange any kind because from my extensive research that's what being a Real Satanist is all about changing and embracing New Things in general because New Things lead to further Opportunity for Spiritual and all other kinds of Advancement. In the future I wouldn't mind being a Woman of Satan. It would be my pleasure and honor and I'd thank Father Satan for giving me such a unique, sexy opportunity to become a Woman on the LHP.


[/TD]

 

[Igor Bedzor]

I'm a 100% straight male , I simply love women, their body curves, their face , their soft hair and delicatesse. But I have a very "feminine" attitude as some may perceive. I wear kinda thight clothes, I like to cross my legs alot, I take care of myself and I treat girls like a girl would treat a boy in a way I'm very soft and sweet. But I'm 100% straight. I think this is pure balance between my male and female aspects . But I still have my masculine aspects. Overall it's all about balance. I do believe though  that I may have been a girl in a previous life, disregard me being  straight.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Brian Gibbons <briangibbons20@... wrote:

 

<td val[/IMG]yes I don't want to open the subject up again either only to say that I agree with you. personally I don't see how that is not a possibility. but that is only my own opinion on the matter as you stated yourself.


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android [/TD]

From: darrklady13 <darkladyschild@...;
To: ;
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:26:25 PM

<td val[/IMG]  
This subject has been addressed before.
Many of us here disagree on whether we can reincarnate into male or female bodies in the physical body.

I personally KNOW I WAS A MALE IN PREVIOUS LIVES, as well as female.

I've been coming to this planet for quite a while, and Im quite frankly, tired of it!

I was about 3 or 4 yrs old in THIS lifetime, and asked my mother if I was male or female.
She said, your a girl.

I said, NO!!! I don't want to be a girl!! Boys get to have better things!!! I want to be a boy!!!

Of course my mother looked at me like I was nuts....it happened often growing up.

although my mother was a spiritualist herself, she was surprised at how I didn't want to be female at such a young age.

There are those here obviously, who believe it isn't the case that we incarnate through different genders.
I say, believe as you wish!! I know my own experiences in past life regression. I've been doing this type of thing since I was 17, and I am now 45.

I have never heard in all my years of studying, reading, meditation, regression....that WE ONLY INCARNATE in the same gender every time.
Only in this forum, have I heard it.

--- [/IMG], Abelardo Cabrera III wrote:

I'm sorry but being a Man of Satan for eternity wouldn't be fair for Satan because he doesn't want limits he wantschange any kind because from my extensive research that's what being a Real Satanist is all about changing and embracing New Things in general because New Things lead to further Opportunity for Spiritual and all other kinds of Advancement. In the future I wouldn't mind being a Woman of Satan. It would be my pleasure and honor and I'd thank Father Satan for giving me such a unique, sexy opportunity to become a Woman on the LHP.


[/TD]

 

[sal_slyth]

Real Nazis were never against homosexuality.

They were/are against pedophiles, which the enemy twisted around into "hates homosexuality".

Neo-nazis aren't real Nazis, they're brainwashed by the enemy like christians are.

 

[aldrick.strickland88]

 Hello, 
 I am Glad to see you could join us here. Satan Fully Accepts those who are Homosexual or Bisexual. As a matter of fact we have a Clergy Member named Jake that supports this issue as well as having a Yahoo Group Specifically For these issues. 
  People are indoctrinated on what to believe from a child up. On top of this many like to state their opinions as facts. So things can get confusing in these regards. The Yahoo Group would be much better suited for you to voice your concern at regarding these matters. 
 Satanic Gay Community:
 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Sat ... unity/info


 Aldrick Strickland  Hail Father Satan Forever 

 

 

[starduststreakoflightning]

Arron Holt. Stop spreading misinformation. There exists no such law in the universe. You don't seem like someone who knows anything about the universe anyway. Do you still believe in fairy-tales like a giant, bearded arsehole sitting on a cloud creating the universe or, possibly worse, the universe starting with the Big Bang?