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Experience: Physical Object Movement by a God

catsarebeautiful2 min to read

Greetings, i hope someone asks the Gods about this, and if its fake, please feel free to expose that in replies. I have enough good experiences, 1 delusion will not hurt, so if anyone knows for sure this to be fake, please comment. Its ok.

During my recent thread, i was writing while my room was dark, and the door closed, under the door i see the light since its day time,

I saw with eyes open a shadow moving under door, like what i see normally if a human pass near the door,

And only the door got a small move or knock or i do not recall how it did sound actually, if it was only the shadow move i would have not thought about this, but the door move sound synchronized with this was too much,

I felt shivers following the experience but dismissed it,

Minutes later, i entered back my room it was dark, i saw like a very small 1cm radius yellow light move fast in front of me at the right side of the what i am seing in front of me, it was in peripheral view not in place where my eyes are focused,

Of couse i dismissed it, since i do not trust experiences easily,

Few seconds later, a physical object got moved from the top of my desk, i did not see. But i heard it clearly, not a ticking, its literally like someone in room moved something in my desk and a strong object, not a small one, as i said it was not the ticking sound, an object movement, and i touched nothing, i wondered if i should share that or not, i picked phone, the minutes were 33, reflecting on how supernatural all this felt, my solar plexus was shivery.

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#1

I am not able to tell you what or who moved the object, but I can assure that it wasn't a God. Gods are the highest manifestations of the Cosmos, they don't go around moving objects.

If such cases happen again, you may have some kind of astral entity that is bothering you. You may want to do some house purifications and ask the Gods for their support in banishing any bad entity.

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Apollo's Astrology: https://www.astroapollo.org

#2

Greetings SG, you said Gods never move objects, so you never experienced it right?

Kindly, As HPS Pythia said, sometimes when a Zevist never had an experience it becomes difficult to comment on someone who had it, and i add to that statement of HPS Pythia my opinion: to be able to comment on an experience whether it is legit or not legit, one should have the experience,

I saw the High Priest say in ToZ he did experience Gods moving objects it contradicts your statement, Can you please elaborate?

Thank you for your answer SG!

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Astralnaut88

The gods are incredible busy nowadays and I haven't not seen this personally, other than a force field as a miracle in May of 2023(the record breaking post I wrote of happened on 2/12/2023 and that's how long it took for them to attempt to take my life), since 2008 when the call to spiritual warfare was made. Maybe when you are new they will give you an experience like this, but if they do it would be more in realm of knowledge of object being moved rather than a belief I am so uncertain of that maybe I should ask on the forums so someone else can ask the gods for me. Things were different before warfare broke out and several members have noticed far more intense experiences before this as they had the free time for it.

I had a fan move once so that the 5 blades became a pentagram once when I was meditating. Even if the AC was on it wouldn't be able to do this. Another time I asked a question that I was not aware was somewhat disrespectful and the lightbulb unscrewed itself and popped on the floor immediately after. They can definitely move objects.

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Black Magic

The gods are incredible busy nowadays and I haven't not seen this personally, other than a force field as a miracle in May of 2023(the record breaking post I wrote of happened on 2/12/2023 and that's how long it took for them to attempt to take my life), since 2008 when the call to spiritual warfare was made. Maybe when you are new they will give you an experience like this, but if they do it would be more in realm of knowledge of object being moved rather than a belief I am so uncertain of that maybe I should ask on the forums so someone else can ask the gods for me. Things were different before warfare broke out and several members have noticed far more intense experiences before this as they had the free time for it.

I had a fan move once so that the 5 blades became a pentagram once when I was meditating. Even if the AC was on it wouldn't be able to do this. Another time I asked a question that I was not aware was somewhat disrespectful and the lightbulb unscrewed itself and popped on the floor immediately after. They can definitely move objects.

When we say that the Gods are very busy, we are reducing them to the level of humans

#3

The assumption of a God won’t move an object, comes after new updates, because the updates has been misunderstood,

When we started talking about the Gods as [ Highest Manifestations of the Cosmos ] like you said,

This made many think now Gods will shy away from doing something that for them is lame,

If a God wants to play me a music he will,

If a God wants to move an object he will,

If a God wants to be extremely biaised in relation to me he will,

Gods will is to be respected, this includes every single thing the Gods desire or do,

We cannot bind them from what we think with our minds that they wont do,

This is projecting unto the Gods, the equivalent of imagining and thinking one saw Gods,

This i strongly disagree with,

The Gods can do, whatever they want, including what one may see as ´lame ´ and not important,

Thats the person judgment, it is hubris to think the Gods think like one do, and should conform to that

The Gods are to be free, which includes also whatever one like or dislikes, whatever the reason, Gods will is independant of human judgement

If Gods want to do something they will. And they do, this is not purely philosophical, the Gods operate this way,

As i said i am always open for discussion and correction

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#5

Many years ago, when "Guardian Daemon" function still had sense for me I tryied to find out who is he/she and contact with. After numerous questions with Black Mirror, Tarot, YES-NO Mechanics etc.. I found out it's Focalor.

I used first time Ouija Board to ask my first questions but this idea turned out into failure. I left board with pointer on a shelf due night and after wake up i realized with my girlfriend it moved significaly.

Yes, The Gods are able to move objects, but mostly it's rare event and do it only when the see important reason. With what I agree you should make investigation to clarify it was realy a God or different entity, Ask questions different Gods, Tarot or other methods to gather different points of view to unveil the answer.

Sometimes The energy floating so chaoticaly making different effects. Few days ago mirror just droped from a bedroom wall, where me and my GF slept - at the middle of the night. Sometimes windows can make a sound like akind of pressure pushing at them, very characterical.

If you want to investigate the most important is to accept an output no matter which one you want to. The WOULD only should be to FIND OUT. Let it flow through and read signals

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Upward Sun - NAVANA

catsarebeautiful

Thank you for sharing your experience!

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Black Magic

Hello, i noticed interesting detail, You said that many years ago, the role of your Guardian Daemon made sense to you, could you elaborate on that? It just sounds that role is not alredy important somehow, I didn’t quite understand that part.

#6

I don't think someone needs to personally experience every phenomenon in order to comment on it. Otherwise, none of us could reason about countless events we have never experienced ourselves. We can use logic and what we already know to evaluate different situations.

Also, this is a discussion forum. What is the point of asking for people's opinions if, when the first person replies with a view you disagree with, you answer that "to be able to comment on an experience, whether it is legit or not, one should have the experience"? That simply dismisses my argument because I haven't personally experienced that specific event.

Secondly, I never said that the Gods never move objects, as you claimed. I said that they don't go around moving objects. There is a big difference.

When the Gods act in this world, especially close to us, it is generally for important reasons: to protect, guide, or teach us something. Below the Gods there are countless other beings, some related to Them and some not, so it is entirely possible that an object was moved by another type of entity instead.

Regarding your second post, I'm glad you understood that the Gods are the Highest Manifestations of the Cosmos. However, I think you misunderstood my point. I never meant that the Gods are somehow "shy" or incapable of doing certain things.

At the same time, we should be careful not to project our own expectations onto the Gods. If someone believes that Lord Apollo, Lord Orpheus, or another Higher Being will simply play music for them during meditation, I think it is worth reflecting on that. The Gods do not act to entertain us. When They choose to intervene, Their actions have a purpose beyond our personal expectations.

Ultimately, none of us can place limits on what the Gods can or cannot do. However, we should also avoid immediately attributing every unusual event directly to Them when there are many other possible explanations.

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Apollo's Astrology: https://www.astroapollo.org

catsarebeautiful

Dear Senior Guardian Hidden Warrior,

I enjoyed replying to you i am writing this after i finished, i do not recall what i said😂 i really cannot check again to refine i got tired, sorry for any inaccuracies in advance.

I see main idea we disagree on is this:

-Can Gods do something supernatural lightly: either object movement, music etc..

My opinion is yes that can happen lightly, not necessarily as something super serious with a chthonic aspect,

From what i understand you disagree and mean that Gods ONLY act efficiently, so they will never do something like the above lightly,

This i personally disagree with, we cannot i guess argue about this, i believe the best if a more advanced Zevist than both of us intervene, hopefully,

I had a similar discussion in Vultus with a Zevist, who was against notion that Gods can be biaised, because he views that as against nobility and that means someone getting more than he deserves so its not just,

So he saw biaised as something ´lowly’

I strongly disagree with that too,

I believe there is nothing that looks more Godly than biais, in the sense:

One can does an input of 1$ , deserving of course 1$ Gold from God Zeus perspective,

And Zeus can still decide to give him 2$ Gold even if the person deserves only 1$

I hope also a more advanced Zevist intervene in this but i will be honest,

If i am wrong in those 2 points, it will be devastating to me, it will shake my whole understanding of Gods, my understand of reality and my understanding of the universe,

However i am always open for learning.

So in summary the above is whats important, the below is not that important, i do not even recall what i wrote

Also, this is a discussion forum. What is the point of asking for people's opinions if, when the first person replies with a view you disagree with, you answer that "to be able to comment on an experience, whether it is legit or not, one should have the experience"? That simply dismisses my argument because I haven't personally experienced that specific event.

I did regret writing that since no one answered and you were the first to start i should have been grateful you interacted instead, however, i believe that by pushing ideas strongly against [ ideas ] that we get to the depth,

Zevism is constantly updates today it has been stated in Vultus that the notion of there is no mediator is not fully accurate, the Clergy themselves used to say that to be accurate, same with many notions, constant updates mean we just need to be comfortable with ideas clashing,

Only in enemy religion only the ´elite ´ are allowed to think for the masses, and this backlashed and many started rewriting their whole own religion from within the same religion, making their foundations become worthless,

i never personally learned from debates that stay at the surface, ironically, the best debates i have ever witnessed and learned from was those with people who get to the point of being direspectful to each other [ which is wrong ], since at that point everyone start giving his best,

While the debates that do not have this friction [ Academic Debates ], they are usually superficial and stay at the surface, And both parties start gatekeeping, and they never say something important its just suits a good coffee and larping,

So i was not dismissing i was just pushing respectfully so we get deeper,

No need to be disrespectful of course, but the friction is truly necessary,

You can check what philosophers faced.. that hints at the level of friction that was happening,

The first one who talked about reality of Gods, that i saw in my life, was the most disrespectful in debates one i have ever seen, yet he was explaining serious stuff,

The respectful ones, all i could found, only talked about mythology, and ´studies’ of things metaphorically,

The biggest gatekeepers in the entire worlds are the academics, i never recall learning something important from someone like that,

The High Priest is the first one i saw merging great academic aspect with real things, real and tangible

At the same time, we should be careful not to project our own expectations onto the Gods. If someone believes that Lord Apollo, Lord Orpheus, or another Higher Being will simply play music for them during meditation, I think it is worth reflecting on that

This i disagree with, apparently you do not call that the Gods being shy or whatever,

But idea is still the same, the Gods wont just come and do something similar,

This i strongly disagree with,

The Gods can do something just to make one laugh for example, whether this have some complicated reasons behind it i do not know, but judging only on whats apparent and without speculation, the Gods can do that,

Because your assumption ´the Gods are so great they wont do that ´

We can use same statement to justify that a Theophany cannot happen in meditation,

Why a God would appear?

If you accept appearance,

By consequence music should be accepted, same as a physical object movement, or anything else,

Is it rare ? Yes, does it happen yes.

But you cannot accept that ´THE HIGHEST RANKING GODS IN UNIVERSE ´, will get present in summoning, and then reject them playing music,

Why would Zeus himself be present after his summoning, i believe the idea of summoning people got so comfortable with it that it does not seem it is very supernatural anymore,

Literally if you accept that you can ´Summon’ [ The Highest Manifestation of the Cosmos ], why you find it hard to believe a God will do something that you label mundane

I don't think someone needs to personally experience every phenomenon in order to comment on it. Otherwise, none of us could reason about countless events we have never experienced ourselves. We can use logic and what we already know to evaluate different situations.

This is true and false, Depends on situation,

For example, an object movement this even the one having it can doubt even if seing with his own eyes, experiences of that caliber even by the one experiencing them can be dismissed, so for a person who did not have, it is not logical to expect something other than skepticism,

I also learnt, from experience, that when the mind reaches a level, you can argue against or defend anything,

I can literally push against anyone and it will be extreme hard to win the argument even if i am wrong,

The problem with that, is many get to that level where their mind becomes good enough to defend even falsehood,

When that happens, one should start doubting his own mind, and learn to add an aspect of [experience] to the equation,

Since reality is grounding and it shapes the thinking to not become only speculative and dlusional,

That being said, if one has the best thinking in the world, and never meditated, i wont trust his opinions about something deep in relation to Gods,

Because he can be so good that he promotes falsehood in a way no one can argue against,

This thing i noticed it existent in different extents,

For example one may break up with his girlfriend, and explain how that was due to evolutionary psychology and make a very strong case,

And still in reality be the one actually who caused the breakup,

You see this in people who read little psychology and start projecting that on everyone, everyone suddenly becomes ´narcissit’,

So one builds a fortress, and becomes untied to reality,

For that very reason, i personally , try to get as much things in real life as possible and also know what others experience,

So that i ground my thinking with the power of reality, otherwise i can build you castles with my mind, and you will be impressed, but how true is that,

I made this about myself since otherwise if i used you for examples it will sound hostile, so i made it about me

so it is entirely possible that an object was moved by another type of entity instead.

The point of Gods do not go around moving objects, is very unclear,

You mean they cannot just do something like that randomly?

I mean they can do it lightly,

In ToZ, there is a story of a magician that was trying to contact a Goddess, and was using disrespectful ways,

It is mentioned the Goddess visited him once and roared,

Why would a Goddess just appear and roar?

If this can happen then the object movement can also happen lightly not as something super secret that the Gods will do in some room underground with massive altars and serious missions in the presence of top 3 initiates only

you said:

[At the same time, we should be careful not to project our own expectations onto the Gods. If someone believes that Lord Apollo, Lord Orpheus, or another Higher Being will simply play music for them during meditation, I think it is worth reflecting on that]

If you are against projection, this includes projection of what they cannot do,

When you say Gods do not do that, this is of itself a projection,

To say what Gods do or do not, you are never ´safe ´, in both cases it is a projection, which can be true or false,

Did the Gods tell you they cannot do that ? This is why i insist on experience, imagine if you had an answer from Gods and a logical reason behind it, your point will be backed by both your intellectual capacities, and the Gods, [ external validation ], without experience, at best you have 1 side of the story, even if you get it right, it is still 1 side

You said :

[The Gods do not act to entertain us.]

I disagree,

Zevism is about enjoying life, and achieving goals, and the Gods help in that, the Gods heal, the Gods presence give pleasure feelings, the Gods shower one with love,

All the Gods action is designed to entertain us, with the true and higher meaning of the word,

The Gods help us in the path to Godhead, what is it there more entertaining than this? Judging from a higher perspective

You said:

[we should also avoid immediately attributing every unusual event directly to Them when there are many other possible explanations.]

I agree 100% with this, in fact i am very skeptical, since the worst thing is to drift from the path because of false assumptions.

Thank you for your reply!

I quoted you a lot, the website started telling me ´Too many requests’ making me unable to quote from the thread lol

#7

All the Gods action is designed to entertain us, with the true and higher meaning of the word,

No. They do not entertain us. There isn't any kind of higher meaning in the word entertain, concerned to the Gods.

The Gods are teachers, guides, beacons of light in the universe. They help us because we are not able to do most of the things alone. They do this because they love us, and want us to progress.

Gods are teachers, not entertainers.

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Apollo's Astrology: https://www.astroapollo.org

Barginda
This is the targeted reply.

The part that confused me was what you wrote about entertainment

"Some Demons like to come on their own and have fun, playing little games. For example, one day at work, a coworker showed me a picture of his girlfriend. Just then, I felt a Demon enter me, and the Demon said, ‘Go ahead, start.’ So I started reading the guy’s girlfriend [most likely referring to psychically gathering information about her here]. My coworker was amazed by my clarity and the accuracy of what I said. Of course, what was actually happening here was that my Demon friend was speaking through me.”

This is a quote from an old post—is it no longer valid now?

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Hidden Warrior [SG]

The part that confused me was what you wrote about entertainment

"Some Demons like to come on their own and have fun, playing little games. For example, one day at work, a coworker showed me a picture of his girlfriend. Just then, I felt a Demon enter me, and the Demon said, ‘Go ahead, start.’ So I started reading the guy’s girlfriend [most likely referring to psychically gathering information about her here]. My coworker was amazed by my clarity and the accuracy of what I said. Of course, what was actually happening here was that my Demon friend was speaking through me.”

This is a quote from an old post—is it no longer valid now?

Without a reference to the original post, it's hard to say anything meaningful about it.

If it's no longer on the Temple of Zeus website, I wouldn't treat it as a current or official source.

catsarebeautiful

The part that confused me was what you wrote about entertainment

"Some Demons like to come on their own and have fun, playing little games. For example, one day at work, a coworker showed me a picture of his girlfriend. Just then, I felt a Demon enter me, and the Demon said, ‘Go ahead, start.’ So I started reading the guy’s girlfriend [most likely referring to psychically gathering information about her here]. My coworker was amazed by my clarity and the accuracy of what I said. Of course, what was actually happening here was that my Demon friend was speaking through me.”

This is a quote from an old post—is it no longer valid now?

It is impossible to argue that Gods do not entertain,

However, what determine the statement to be false or right is what we mean by [ entertain ],

I believe SG meant we cannot say that Gods are intertainers, since this make them look lower than what they actually are,

and i agree with him in this, the Gods are not entertainers they are actually Gods, we can have a God name and add near him, the King and such, but it does not sound right to add the entertainer to a God name,

so it is wrong,

This is why i agree with SG on his point.

From another perspective, first what i said earlier, and on top of it,

Do we still agree music has been gifted by Gods to us? ..

Same for meditations and techniques which induce bliss..

Seing Zeus in the Eagle,

Seing thunders and how majestic they are,

This is pure entertainment, but it is holy, not entertainment like a nightclub.. so here the question if that can be called entertainment,

the Gods for example can be funny, how can that not be entertainement?

There are several examples it is literally impossible to take down that point,

However, the Gods are not to be reduced to that, or defined as that, do they do it yes, why they do it exactly this seems complex,

I once during a summoning, was thinking Gods left me and i am doomed,

I summoned, waited for some attack, just to make sure they are against me and to quit then, i was psychologically destroyed at that point and ready,

After summoning, the God got present,

I felt very beautiful vibe, the way he got present and how i felt etc.. made it clear they never left me and also this is a strong proof that Gods are not monsters, because i was with 0 protection and very vulnerable,

Anyway,at a point i just had my head down crying , suddenly i got a very weird , pleasant, and abnormal physical manifestation,

They did it in very subtle and kind way, and they did it very slowly from my peripheral vision,

Upon seing, i was too much crying that i ignored also it was not very clear, since my eyes was all tears, and they kept magnifying this, until i turned out of shock, because they did a manifestation near my face, very near, instantly stopped crying and was realizing what i just saw,

The way they acted, literally, literally,

Like a mother when her child crying, and she does something to distract him or uplift his mood,

It was very mother-child like,

This is one of the reasons why i believe , the Gods can act in ways, that can seem very human,

[ Manifestation of Cosmos ] appeared while i am crying and calmed me down,

It sounds crazy, this is why personally i do not bind Gods mentally, this is hubris, whatever they want to do, WHATEVER, i will never say this is not what Manifestation of cosmos do,

I like to project freedom on them, whatever their choice, whether i agree or disagree, i will back them up with what i can.

#8

Thank you SG for your reply!

There are still things to be said about that, but i believe it will be counter productive, [ Following not about you but generally, because the forum is public, and everyone reads.. ], i believe not everyone is capable of navigating the taboo while still holding same sense of reverence, many will lose grab on that reverence easily, while in fact, i believe that while navigating the taboo,

More reverence in needed, as a form of gratitude of being granted the freedom to be able to go there, if i discuss more this idea, i may look like overstepping and getting away with it, while in fact, i am of the humans that honor the Gods the most in this planet in several ways, [ And the door is open for everyone to compete in that, there are many ideas: offerings, personal development, rituals, helping other Zevists, Donations to the temple of Zeus [ even in small amounts do not hesitate, the Gods value intention ] etc..], so given the fact i am over protective of Gods, and especially Goddesses, i will refrain from discussing something that will end up being counterproductive ,

Generally, it is more wise and safe, in my opinion, for people to hold the idea that the Gods are High Manifestation of the Cosmos and stay mostly there, that is way better than the corrupted Left Hand Paths etc..

Going deeper than that requires a degree of respect, wisdom, guidance, experience, reverence and trust not everyone has, so i believe it is better to not discuss the taboo and at best just hint at it, otherwise this will increase chances and frequency of Hubris and Disrespect toward the Gods, out of ignorance and lack of experience and understanding,

I had several dreams last night, i woke up disoriented after each, not realizing it was dream and thinking for certain it was real, at the moment of waking up, i believed without any doubt that it was the Gods, i was very disoriented, whether if that means it was them i or not i do not know,

Went back to sleep each time, its like if the dreams were repetitive, and i got told something, and the situation was unpleasant, either the Gods disliked something about me, or some other party, it was like some unpleasant thing that needs to be solved, i tried recalling so hard but could not, like if i am not meant to recall, i only recalled once but i went back to sleep which made me forget,

I do recall the very last dream before waking up, my Guardian God appeared in a form described in my own culture, i have read he can appear that way long ago, so when seing him i did not know him, i kept staring at him in dream [ it felt and looked like when seing them in meditation, i do not know if that was just a dream ], seing the details i recalled it is him, and upon knowing him i woke up,

He appeared in a very composed way, and just was there, i do not know if that hint at something was going on and he interfered. Or something else. But it is always the wisest option to be more aware after such experience.

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#9

Personally - The manifestion from Gods I aquired was a fuel for me to uncover more knowledge. The one that persist there in library is good for first steps and ascendents to know how to speak, how to react at situations casued by colab by physical with spiritual world. You uncover meaning of knowledge. The later way is only reserved for you and other Your Friends or People who also ascinding with you if you have someone.

Don't believe in ranks distributed by humans, just follow to exchange your own expieriances.

JUST DON'T FALL FULLY INTO PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS, what The Gods saying about your judgement?

I Asked my Guardian first "Yes or No" Answers, of course with offical etiquete and respect. I felt in my right or left hand which one had more weight - The Truth is a burden, not a Arcardia or Utopia.

When I started to feel The weight of a Truth i abandonded a lot of my personal opinion but of course not of all. My personal voice is important but how with The knowledge of a Gods?

They will aquire my own opinion as Their or Our minds will be different.

If different what hold me to get answer? Where i felt if I...

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Upward Sun - NAVANA

#10

The runes, The different mantras, positions of a Yoga, Nercobomicon, Cabalistic Mantras, Rituals, Astrology Planets

THERE ARE a lot of pieces of a perspective collecting in one place and put you into understand

YOU CAN BE OBJEVTIVE even at your HADES'ts parts of your life.

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Upward Sun - NAVANA

#11

I didn't want to answer at first time, but when I saw when somebody told "GODS ARE COSMOS"

you aren't obliged to meet them (BY SMALL LETTERS)

As a renegade im just sensitve for a nobility, who want to claim what I should feel or not from Gods. Its a personal relation only shared with most trusted people around who also share or follow same direction but different patchs (You know)

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Upward Sun - NAVANA

#12

My reply is not really about you i just liked to share my opinion on this matter and i am open for discussing this, do not feel I am arguing against you, i am not, just sharing thoughts,

[ Don't believe in ranks distributed by humans ]

I understand the meaning behind this was not against hierarchy but rather, was encouraging one to think for himself,

First i am glad your comment got approved, i personally, think excessive censorship does not look good,

What you say is encouraged by Zevism, one should think for himself, and learn to discern and exercise his intellect,

To judge ToZ, we should judge by the leader perspective, both HPZM and Zeus & Hera, the High Hierarchy in ToZ and in Gods, encourage exercise of the intellect,

So if a member is uncomfortable with that within the forum, it does not mean ToZ itself is against that or the Gods against it,

In the spiritual realm, there are chances of falling into delusion or being misled,

The more one is able to discern and use his intellect the more he will be grounded and navigate the path correctly, even if he does mistakes,

So i do believe that one should take external data and then think for himself, one should listen to himself above all and take responsability for his actions, that is always and everytime better than following blindly advices and then blaming people for failure,

The second aspect of this, ranks are important,

In the real word and in ToZ,

In the real world even if one isnot worthy of a rank, the fact that he is keeping it, means he is skillful in someway either good way or bad way, either skillfulin the good or in the bad, but we have to be honest the skill is there,

Imagine one is unworthy of a rank and having it and one worthy and still not having it lol the irony, the first succeeded in mission of getting rank the second failed,

For example if one is in a company and think the CEO is dumb,

Try to take over his place, try to ascend in hierarchy, you will see how hard it is,

Same for owner of the company, if you believe he is just some random average joe,

Try starting a business and have just two employees and see how hard it will be to manage them and manage the business, even to get them to do and follow your strategy will require skill they are not ai that will just execute,

Now the other aspect, about ToZ,

I personally noticed, somehow the Gods are very heavily present here,

In abnormal ways, i experience excessive synchronicities here,

For example, i will do a ritual of a God, and the clergy who has him as Guardian God will start interacting with me,INSTANTLY after the ritual,

I yearned for Poseidon and Pan rituals, in less than a year they have been added to ToZ,

I saw Gods here depicted with naked breast sometimes, i thought, can the Gods really appear in that way,

I got two synchronicities, the first i cannot say, the second was the above the first time i get naked vision this after less than 30-40 days of having the thought,

And much much more, it feels literally to me and i am not exagerating like if the Gods have a hand in ToZ physically and they change and organize events continuously,

I also noticed, in days when i am more aligned with Gods my experience in ToZ get enhanced, i would think a question and bump into a thread answering it without searching and those kind of things,

This extends to ranks, we still have two High Priests only, this shows how strict the hierarchy is in this, and only 1 priest, and i guess only 1 novice Priest,

But it is logical to expect for example Guardians to not be on level of High Priest, this is actually normal and how hierarchy works, Still, they are advanced compared to most of other members, so this not to be misunderstood. Especially in terms of contributions to ToZ.

So [ do not care about ranks ]

Is not very accurate,

If you get opinion, the higher the rank the more you should take it into consideration this is a shortcut an advanced member sharing his perspective after years of experience, it is not wise to completely dismiss it,

HPZM himself said High Priests are 99.99% accurate, and he himself updated High Priestess Pythia Material,

But it does not mean that now members are more advanced than High Priestess Pythia, in fact, even with the previous material, she is still more advanced than almost everyone and rarely someone will exceed her in accomplishment judging by standard,

So ranks do mean things, and yes one should also discern and use his intellect, and an NG is not a High Priest, nothing wrong with this, it is just hierarchy, but all of them are clergy, one is free to try to ascend in ToZ hierarchy to know how hard it will be, upon trying, one will understand that the standards are real, credit to the Gods and the founder HPZM for his vision and fairness. As these values cascade down the organizational ranks and naturally inspire others to emulate their examples.

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#13

And yes , Adar. I agree with you that one should exercise his own intellect and that relation with Gods is personal. Thinking of Gods as [ ONLY ] manifestation of the Cosmos, makes them feel distant, in my own experience. But thinking is different than experiencing experiencing them in those ways can be very blissful, The higher manifestations, have its own flavor, more ´true’, however, if both are valid, then all are true actually, and i believe it is beautiful to experience truth from several perspectives, that is my current opinion,

I think they appear as humans to make us experience closeness, and it is counterproductive to push against that and think of them as only high manifestation of the cosmos, especially if one is new, would a new member love to see a God appear as a Human or as a complex manifestation that can be very overwhelming? And i am curious if those who experienced the Gods in an overwhelming way, if they actually want that to happen frequently, like in every single session seing the overwhelming form

I personally, started avoiding triggering that side frequently, i cannot handle having those experiences frequently i am seriously curious about the other practitioners

Yes their truth is beyond form but i personally, find warmth in that, i experience the level five of God manifestation, seing them as humans is still a very holy and very very beautiful experience, in my opinion, also, experiencing them in nature and those kind of experiences are extremly beautiful and in my experience i usually feel bliss which is very very beautiful and feels like heaven, however the human form is still so beautiful too, and i am yearning for physical manifestations, and hearing them,

I am curious about others experiences about this

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