Header Wallpaper

A Theological Inquiry : Divine Patience, The Threshold Between Honest Mistakes and Unforgivable Offense

catsarebeautiful6 min to read

Note: i do not know if this against the rules, if yes sorry in advance.

Greetings,

I always thought deeply about this subject, and i hope someone expands on it,

Obviously, the Gods can correct an initiate, i insisted many times that they be blunt with me but still did not face that, when i do mistake, they literally act like they never saw, but i do correct because i know they know that i know that they saw,

This makes me think, maybe those mistakes, are not bad to the point of Gods correcting me but they let me self correct,

This makes me think to what extent this can go,

I long ago before i became Zevist, did some mistakes for example toward the Gods, the Gods acted like they never saw, and i also did good things toward them, they took the good and acted like they never saw the bad,

Other time, i was about to do a spiritual thing, to get a thing right, i kept hesitating to start, since from my own speculation, i speculate the Gods will not always stop me before an action, but they may let me free and see how i will act, like a test,

This makes me when making decisions, make sure i am more aware and i try to seek the best option through reason, as long as the decision matches the best i can get, then its good, even if it was the wrong one, since i did best with what i have,

However, sometimes, it is literally not clear, like in the example i gave above, where i wanted to do a spiritual thing to get a thing, and it was not fully clear if that is good or bad,

I kept thinking for few days and did not take action out of fear of Gods perceiving me in lowly way, or me not meeting their expectations,

What happened, is, i got the thing, things happened like if spiritually someone helped in that heavily, which was very weird, i speculate 100% it was the Gods. But this made me think, was the thing that i will do bad and by not doing it the Gods did it, or was it good and they encouraged me that way, because the thing was not clear,

Recently while thinking about this subject, this popped in forum:

“Our God, Zeus, does not demand blind obedience. He encourages inquiry, self-development, and the full exercise of the intellect. He does not punish questioning; he rewards it. He does not withhold knowledge; he offers it. He does not require the diminishment of the human soul as the price of his favour; he requires its growth. This is the nature of the True God: one who made his children to become Gods in their own right, not to grovel as slaves.”-High Priest Zevios Metathronos

this has been said about intellect, and questioning, what about [ Action ],

I saw the High Priest once said the Gods rarely leave people, and its for reason that cant even be mentioned, i just hope he mentioned them since that leaves room for speculation,

Walking the path, many times i hit brakes just because i get afraid that this may be some mistake that will cause Gods to get upset,

To get more deeply into this subject of how Gods [ View Our Mistakes ], i will give a famous example in some Left hand paths,

the ones who try to use Solomon ways of summoning, or offensive techniques,

I never seen someone succeed with those kind of stuff, and those who succeed, they end up more and more respectful to Demons, it starts being less and less solomonic, since the upfront work with Demons, even if promising, is not actually the life altering thing,

The real deal is when one starts having agreements,

For example, i once saw one recommend a way that look very solomic, but then he says that when meeting the entity you say what you want and the entity either refuses or accepts and also the entity says what she wants, and the initiate can accept or not based on if he is sure to fulfill or not etc.. so the technique upfront is solomonic, however seing the whole thing, its not solomonic at all, it is not like Zevism of course, but in Zevism its almost impossible for me to give a concrete example we can use to discuss this ´mistakes with Gods point and how they react to it’, which is good proving Zevism Honors the Gods,

However to be able to discuss i had to go back to a left hand example,

Anyway, in that example how Gods view the initiate, since this will help me understand how they assign whats a severe mistake and whats something the initiate will learn later,

A deal breaker vs something that will be solved,

Especially that, internet is flooded with offensive techniques or usually at best techniques that disrespect the Gods,

So if one has been with Gods in previous life and ends up with some of those techniques, whats better ? Him not entering the occult at all, or entering in that way and being corrected later,

For me it seems its better if he starts with the best thing he had which is the stuff that may be offensive,

But how Gods view this, do they [ understand ] and will lead someone who has good intentions to the real path and not get offended,

Or is it like an automatic response: whoever comes through corrupted way we will attack him [ not logical ]

In simple terms, do the Gods encourage action and research, as much as they encourage intellect exercise, or there are red lines , if there are redlines how to know those ? Since otherwise the red line may be only in the initiate intellect causing him to hold back.. while in fact Gods are the ones encouraging him..

What is the [ Threshold ] between:

Patience

Correction

Punishment But Gods still with initiate

Gods leaving

0
#1

If I'm understanding your question, the Gods understand historical context, yes. Necessity is considered.

Although, if someone knows about Zevism, and is a Zevist, they are expected to know what is respectful, in time. The Temple of Zeus teaches one how to communicate and build a relationship with the Gods in the best way.

If you feel like you're crossing a line concerning applicable knowledge, then ask yourself why. Are you doing something that Zevism does not teach, or are you simply holding yourself back for something that is good for you—and are you justifying either of these things with falsehood?

Something else to consider: punishment is usually self-inflicted. Your actions, if truly wrong, create Izfet within you that manifests. The Gods, for most mistakes, don't punish because the mistake is punishment enough. You'll become more sensitive to this, as a Zevist.

And unless you're directly attacking the Gods (which Left Hand methods do, especially since the ToZ exists), you're likely just not participating with MA'AT. You punish yourself and make the corrections and the Gods guide.

Does this make sense? I hope I understood you

0
#2

Thank you for your answer, there is small misunderstanding the thread was not about me

I never said i got punished,

If a General is fighting a war and does a strategic mistake that causes a loss of a battle, it is a mistake, and many families will be ruined because of that mistake,that not to be misunderstood for something like disloyalty etc..

This is why i made the thread above, the [ mistakes ] in relation to Gods and how they view them, this is very blurry,

For example, asking one what is hubris, one may say it is being arrogant, But we can take same situation and a group will label it hubris while another will say its not,

This is why i went to the extreme and gave one of the worst examples so that i can get how Gods actually think and act in the extreme,

When we say damage is self inflicted, and not the Gods, this is not very accurate,

For example in ritual of Nemesis it is said if one call on her and he is on the wrong she will attack him instead, so the Gods do attack,

Also, if we see the Gods as being the foundation reality of the universe and its laws then they are the one who punish the initiate in violation with Maat, besides if you hold opinion of Laws being above Gods

In addition, not every backlash or something bad is caused by being not aligned with Maat, reality is more complex than that and there are many variables,

As an example, if i get attacked by a reptilien today, is it because i was aligned with izfet?

Attributing every ´punishment’ to msalignement with Maat is not accurate

The Gods themselves have been slandered, did that happen as punishment of misalignment of Maat?

Reality is complex

If you feel like you're crossing a line concerning applicable knowledge, then ask yourself why. Are you doing something that Zevism does not teach, or are you simply holding yourself back for something that is good for you—and are you justifying either of these things with falsehood?

Joy of Satan did teach things that now are considered inaccurate, in the thread above i extended and used examples beyond Zevism in order to trigger talking about how Gods think and react in the extremes, and i stated that in the thread above, so this is not about Zevism itself but about a specifity in Zevism it is how Gods operate in relation to mistakes, the extreme ones

Although, if someone knows about Zevism, and is a Zevist, they are expected to know what is respectful, in time. The Temple of Zeus teaches one how to communicate and build a relationship with the Gods in the best way.

I have seen advanced members do severe mistakes, being in Zevism is not a shield to that, mistakes will happen..

f I'm understanding your question, the Gods understand historical context, yes. Necessity is considered

But why some Got attacks and some nothing so there is a mechanism, for some necessity was not considered for other it was..

I hope i did understand your reply

5
Avatar
Lucius Invictus [NG]

I replied based on what you wrote in your post. I never made dogmatic statements—the reply was relative to what I thought you were asking.

Concerning moral relativism, context, and necessity, the Gods see clearly. All mistakes are seen and judged, yes.

But when I said that the Gods don't punish, I meant in the way we typically understand punishment. If you lie, Zeus will not descend and strike you. However, your word becomes meaningless and your deceit is recorded; and that is the Law of MAAT, which Father Zefs is supreme ruler of.

That is Justice.

Nemesis is retribution. Yes, this is real, and those who are truly hubris will be struck down to earth, their false wings melted.

What most think is "punishment" is providence upholding justice.

The Gods are not diminished due to the action of men, but Men are empowered or diminished due to their own actions concerning the Gods.

catsarebeautiful

I replied based on what you wrote in your post. I never made dogmatic statements—the reply was relative to what I thought you were asking.

Concerning moral relativism, context, and necessity, the Gods see clearly. All mistakes are seen and judged, yes.

But when I said that the Gods don't punish, I meant in the way we typically understand punishment. If you lie, Zeus will not descend and strike you. However, your word becomes meaningless and your deceit is recorded; and that is the Law of MAAT, which Father Zefs is supreme ruler of.

I got your opinion, thank you for replying !

However about this specific point of hubris, it really confuses me,

If a 5 years old thinks he is superman, will his father make his false wings melted?

I speculate hubris must be something done against something. Not pure self image or speculation or whatever,

Alexander the Great had hubris if we talk about hubris being just arrogance,

He also killed one just because he got angry,

I am eager to hear your thoughts on that,

he is a Zevist personality.

catsarebeautiful

Have you read fully his page? It answers your questions.

The page does not start right:

[To date, no monarch in the world is as radiantly emblematic of heroism as Alexander the Great, nor as deserving of such a title.]

catsarebeautiful

Have you read fully his page? It answers your questions.

I take back what i said,

I believe the dramatic statements, serve a purpose, it makes it fun to read for many. Otherwise it will read boring.

#3
This is the targeted message.

There is much I should write on the subject of the gods purposefully being mysterious even deceptive in a sense by over generalizing and then having you take their statements the wrong way, just so you correct yourself the hard way. I have seen this happen directly and they have also shown me how they have done this to others.

This is similar to how when Neo meets the oracle and the message she gave was one that he needed to hear, a lie really, but one that lead to a much higher Truth, that he was not the one, and ultimately the pain this caused him and the transformation it morphed within him made the opposite true.

They showed me how they stated to someone that I was a "master of deception". The way they took this is that I am a yehuborim. A chess master is a master of deception, a good martial arts teacher who knows how to fake, someone who understands the necessity for surprise in combat is this, who can create a labyrinth in logic that the surface of that yarn barn can't let you see the truth of what is hidden inside, only the appearance which is always a mask.

But Astralnaut88 that's not how the gods work!

We should never devalue their mysteriousness by stating we know how a being who has been alive for trillions (they can experience millions of years in seconds and minutes) of years is supposed to act when in actually stating this is almost blasphemy if they weren't so understanding.

2

ΛΕΩΝ

Avatar
Lucius Invictus [NG]

In my own experience, this is not how the Gods work with us:

The Gods would not deceive you in order to teach you; they would not appear false to confuse you, first, and later use your confusion for clarity.

When we communicate with the Gods, we can misunderstand the message, but that doesn't mean they intended that, regardless if they knew the outcome of the message, originally.

Now, the Gods do tell us what we need to hear, which can be unpleasant and affect the lower ego, causing some people to assume they're not actually receiving guidance (in order to protect their constructs).

Avatar
Astralnaut88

In my own experience, this is not how the Gods work with us:

The Gods would not deceive you in order to teach you; they would not appear false to confuse you, first, and later use your confusion for clarity.

When we communicate with the Gods, we can misunderstand the message, but that doesn't mean they intended that, regardless if they knew the outcome of the message, originally.

It's exactly as write "in my experience". I have experienced otherwise and it took them 15 years to even reveal this side of them. It was almost like a test, but it was more of learning the hard way through action, rather than thinking one can learn about it through reading on the topic.

They were clear as day and gave me the exact reason why they did this. I don't at all believe everyone will experience this. This might be one of those rare exceptions to the general rule, but it could also be a time issue where they reveal aspects of themselves when you are ready. I'm not surprised most of us, even older members haven't experienced this, some might never see side of them.

Mother Lilith was direct with me one certain tests that are far worse than what I have stated above in how cruel the gods can be, even if only projecting a specific scenario as a test of character, to see what one would do given illusory circumstances. I was told to stay quiet an specifics but I hope I can generalize enough to make my point clear. Those well fed gators initiates had to swin past in ancient Egypt doesn't really have anything against these sorts of tests, but again you will know if you ever experience it, and chances are you won't be able to speak of it directly.