Same sex marriage

[MageSurpent666]

LOL

it is not, the promiscuity, which has in scientific literature the ghetto term MSM (Men who have Sex with Men) tends to bring higher rates of STDs
This is only of the few problems, for the rest it's just sex nothing else.

Unions are not acts of Lust but through understanding of each other mate and the only reason for not understanding is the blindness of the Yehober.Hail Zeus Hail Baal Hail Agares

 

[luis]

The info from the video doesn't "discount" whatever irrelevant sexual tendencies a part of the population had in ancient times, it provides historical accounts of society at the time, including from Theophoric personalities like Plato; and also because those things:
*Don't matter on a spiritual level - and more often than not either for celibacy or over-sexuality these are used as excuses of pseudo-spirituality and lying about history.
*Don't have any measure in how "abrahamic" someone is. Re-read the Ethics session.



So, emotional triggers and not objective judgement - speaking as someone who was also a believer of the inflated claims about sexuality in ancient times propagated by the demoted HPs:

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια: Double Ignorance of Proclus - When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια Double Ignorance author: High Priest Zevios Metathronos When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant. The Gateway to Zevism: Proclus on the First Prison of the Soul, the Andrapod and the Seeker, and the Sting That Sets Free. Most people who hear about Zevism, theurgy...

ancient-forums.com

"Mockery is the social tool by which the system polices its members. Laugh at the questioner and you’ve neutralized the question without ever needing to answer it. The Andrapod often laughs first and thinks never."

So what is your own opinion on homosexuality? The sexual etichs are clear. I can belive that homosexuality in history has been inflated especially Greeks but at the end of the day what matter to me is how does TOZ views these things?

To me it makes sense that transgenderism is a illness of the mind that needs to be healed. If you are born in a way it does not makes sense you want to be something else. You can do it but its not healthy for the mind. This is my take on it and I thing most would agree, in any case here we do accept people that are transgenders but meditations and healing exist on TOZ to heal this thing.

What about homosexuality? As a gay men (lately found out I'm bisexual actually after a round of Advanced Purifications but I never had a sexual experience with a women) I can see It's not something I can easily change, I'm attracted to other guys and to the sexual practices you do with a guy. But I wonder, is it okay? Natural? Like a fetish? Or it's totally okay for me to be gay and live my life with a guy? I'm asking myself these questions lately, I know it's a huge topic and I know our Sexual Etichs but I wish @High Priest Zevios Metathronos would talk about it, sexuality is a HUGE part of our existence and I don't want to wake up one day and thing I made the wrong "choises".

I'm very open to discuss this, we are all here to advance.

 

[Nikólaos666]

You mean other people trying to discount that homosexuality also occurred in history because they think it's gross? It maybe wasn't direct but it was enough to see. Like I said it's not the first time that I've noticed these sentiments. I know the ethics in the Temple of Zeus and the Gods themselves have no issues with homosexuality. I should hope this wouldn't change anyway, yet many things already have. Honestly for the past year and a half or so, there are many things that have made me wince hence my life of participation in the forums as a whole. I can still attempt to commune with the Gods and focus on my own evolution without having a group of people to do so. I've been alone for most of my life anyway and I'm used to it, and it's probably for the better.

Many times, you have came on the live platform while you were having some troubles with your girlfriend and everyone were kind, supportive and respectful with you. Yes, there are people that have a different opinion about homosexuality. I don’t see much messages here about those people.


And for the alone part, this is only on your own decision. Nobody rejected you anywhere.

 

[Asra]

Did I miss an update? Weren't all 3 sexual orientations normal traits the soul keeps throughout lifetimes?

This critical commentary on the way some people have intercourse is very disrespectful to our Brothers and Sisters of this nature. This shouldn't be of anyone's concern and it's unbelievable to me that it's being used as an argument. It's not valid, because during heterosexual sex too, even when both partners are healthy, unpleasant biological effects can occur (vaginal irritation and microtears, temporary swelling, spotting, pelvic cramps, etc). By these people's logic, heterosexual sex isn't healthy either, and all forms of intercourse are gross.

I can still attempt to commune with the Gods and focus on my own evolution without having a group of people to do so. I've been alone for most of my life anyway and I'm used to it, and it's probably for the better.

Hello. Don't let yourself be pushed into decisions about the Temple by people who don't speak for the Temple.

 

[Henu the Great]

So what is your own opinion on homosexuality? The sexual etichs are clear. I can belive that homosexuality in history has been inflated especially Greeks but at the end of the day what matter to me is how does TOZ views these things?

To me it makes sense that transgenderism is a illness of the mind that needs to be healed. If you are born in a way it does not makes sense you want to be something else. You can do it but its not healthy for the mind. This is my take on it and I thing most would agree, in any case here we do accept people that are transgenders but meditations and healing exist on TOZ to heal this thing.

What about homosexuality? As a gay men (lately found out I'm bisexual actually after a round of Advanced Purifications but I never had a sexual experience with a women) I can see It's not something I can easily change, I'm attracted to other guys and to the sexual practices you do with a guy. But I wonder, is it okay? Natural? Like a fetish? Or it's totally okay for me to be gay and live my life with a guy? I'm asking myself these questions lately, I know it's a huge topic and I know our Sexual Etichs but I wish @High Priest Zevios Metathronos would talk about it, sexuality is a HUGE part of our existence and I don't want to wake up one day and thing I made the wrong "choises".

I'm very open to discuss this, we are all here to advance.

It has been said and written so many times already. Why do you seek confirmation or validation when this is already laid out? You can live your life anyway.

 

[luis]

Many times, you have came on the live platform while you were having some troubles with your girlfriend and everyone were kind, supportive and respectful with you. Yes, there are people that have a different opinion about homosexuality. I don’t see much messages here about those people.


And for the alone part, this is only on your own decision. Nobody rejected you anywhere.

Sexuality is HUGE part of someones life. Having problems with it of any kinds, can make you unable to advance spiritually. So since its so important we as a community should refrain to make negative statements. We have our sexual etichs that says it's okay to engage in any sexual activity between consenting adults, we only deny pedofilia, bestiality and so on.

If we as a Spiritual religion belive homosexuality is something that needs to be healed then @High Priest Zevios Metathronos should make a statement about it, like it was said about transgenderism. Again sexuality is a huge part of somones life and we should know whats best to do.

 

[luis]

It has been said and written so many times already. Why do you seek confirmation or validation when this is already laid out? You can live your life anyway.

Its true but I wonder after a cicle of Advanced purifications, my sexuality changed and I wonder is it because being hetero is the natural state or what. The statments on TOZ is very short, does not go in many details about why do Homosexuals and Bisexuals exist and how they should live their lifes, and I would like to know more. It would help me a lot understand if I'm living my life the best I can.

 

[Nikólaos666]

Sexuality is HUGE part of someones life. Having problems with it of any kinds, can make you unable to advance spiritually. So since its so important we as a community should refrain to make negative statements. We have our sexual etichs that says it's okay to engage in any sexual activity between consenting adults, we only deny pedofilia, bestiality and so on.

Where did I wrote something "bad" about sexuality in my post?

 

[Henu the Great]

Its true but I wonder after a cicle of Advanced purifications, my sexuality changed and I wonder is it because being hetero is the natural state or what. The statments on TOZ is very short, does not go in many details about why do Homosexuals and Bisexuals exist and how they should live their lifes, and I would like to know more. It would help me a lot understand if I'm living my life the best I can.

Did it change, or did your perspective of it change? In any case, whatever happens, happens. Take it as it comes.

One lives life as they best see fit, and adjust as they learn more. I find it appalling to seek mechanical methods for something as simple as existing when certain labels are concerned.

 

[luis]

Where did I wrote something "bad" about sexuality in my post?

Sorry I did not mean to reply to you. It was a general statement.

 

[luis]

Did it change, or did your perspective of it change? In any case, whatever happens, happens. Take it as it comes.

One lives life as they best see fit, and adjust as they learn more. I find it appalling to seek mechanical methods for something as simple as existing when certain labels are concerned.

I actually found out I'm bisexual. I like womens now. I dont know how to explain it. And honestly I don't know how to live my life now. I like both for different things but I can't have a relationship we both at the same time obviously, or at least in this society it's not something that it's accpeted and honestly I don't even know if it's the right thing to do. I like men a lot I don't like the idea to not have sex with a men anymore but at the same time womens have things men don't and obviously you can't have a family with a men.

The TOZ does gives life advices too lately, what type of partner to have for procreation and things like this but there is nothing about homosexuality and bisexuality, so I would like to know more.

 

[Bluecollarbutch666]

Letting ignorant people get under your skin is not a good path to take. Yes, there are several of them who openly state ignorant comments about sexuality. And then what? Ostracising yourself for that is silly in my opinion when taking into consideration that no alternative Zevist communities exist. At the end of the day, all members are growing, and the human state is dismal, let's not forget that. So yes, of course, there are things that could be said better, could be better not said at all. And yes, a lot of science sucks, and what else. But so what? Let's make it better then.

Many times, you have came on the live platform while you were having some troubles with your girlfriend and everyone were kind, supportive and respectful with you. Yes, there are people that have a different opinion about homosexuality. I don’t see much messages here about those people.


And for the alone part, this is only on your own decision. Nobody rejected you anywhere.

My ex girlfriend is in the past, and I was looking for input from an outside perspective after I was discarded twice. I had a few people who were supportive specifically who replied but most said nothing which is fine. I'm not saying everyone isn't supportive and don't mean to discredit who are, but they aren't the majority.

 

[Henu the Great]

I actually found out I'm bisexual. I like womens now. I dont know how to explain it. And honestly I don't know how to live my life now. I like both for different things but I can't have a relationship we both at the same time obviously, or at least in this society it's not something that it's accpeted and honestly I don't even know if it's the right thing to do. I like men a lot I don't like the idea to not have sex with a men anymore but at the same time womens have things men don't and obviously you can't have a family with a men.

When "new mental ground" is gained, comes a period of integration and adjustment. It takes time to process it all and to make sensible mental models. You seem a little bit confused here, and that is part of the process. I will end by saying that you decide with whom you want to be with, consensually, of course. That is what it boils down to.

The TOZ does gives life advices too lately, what type of partner to have for procreation and things like this but there is nothing about homosexuality and bisexuality, so I would like to know more.

Sorry, I must have missed where it is explicitly stated what kind of partner should be taken and so forth. I thought that we use our own faculties to determine who to be with, and not to be with.

 

[luis]

When "new mental ground" is gained, comes a period of integration and adjustment. It takes time to process it all and to make sensible mental models. You seem a little bit confused here, and that is part of the process. I will end by saying that you decide with whom you want to be with, consensually, of course. That is what it boils down to.

Sorry, I must have missed where it is explicitly stated what kind of partner should be taken and so forth. I thought that we use our own faculties to determine who to be with, and not to be with.

I do understand it takes time to adjust. But it honestly feels like I like both and I have to choose what type of life I want to live because it will be different with a women or a men, and it kinda suck to choose.

Here it says on how to choose your partner https://templeofzeus.org/advancedphilosophy/Eugeneia.php

 

[hailourtruegod]

Did I miss an update? Weren't all 3 sexual orientations normal traits the soul keeps throughout lifetimes?

This critical commentary on the way some people have intercourse is very disrespectful to our Brothers and Sisters of this nature. This shouldn't be of anyone's concern and it's unbelievable to me that it's being used as an argument. It's not valid, because during heterosexual sex too, even when both partners are healthy, unpleasant biological effects can occur (vaginal irritation and microtears, temporary swelling, spotting, pelvic cramps, etc). By these people's logic, heterosexual sex isn't healthy either, and all forms of intercourse are gross.



Hello. Don't let yourself be pushed into decisions about the Temple by people who don't speak for the Temple.

It would be nice if people start being considerate about the following (instead the constant hyper emotional replies when an opposing view is met with direct and objective points. If the rest of us you speak of acted the same way as BluecollarButch then maybe you would have a point but you are making something out of nothing here.);

We are online and not in front of each other so the "sounding" can come off totally different than what it is meant to be.


Never did I mention I agree or disagree with anything here and that goes for trans as well.

Yes, the person I elaborated for didnt have to chime in the first place since we werent even talking about homosexuality and that's why I agreed with how unnecessary it was to bring it up when someone else butted in and said it wasn't needed to be said.

Is it not a fact the immune system goes down? You just admitted it yourself. This has more to do with what the seed does than any opinion if its good or not. Claiming it to be unhealthy is more subjective but their point was based on something instead of pulling out of thin air. I presented the information on what might be meant and added that BluecollarButch should move on from feeling personally attacked as this place isn't for validation of sexuality and a waste of time to change people's opinions (those who do have it) on it. We weren't even in place where homosexuality was being bashed. It was a simple back and forth, smh.

This isn't directly towards you but in general. People complain they feel attacked when replied to with objectivity but the irony now is posts like these shame people from sharing information in a back and forth conversation.

So because one person is acting emotional and threatening to leave i have to work harder to sound nice? Well I did try in the last messages but looks like this effort is one way.

Summary, it's an online board and the topic leaned towards objectivity in what happens to the body. The delivery can come out harsh, I agree, and I agree I can miss how it sounds, but we aren't in front of each other where one will be able to tell I am speaking kindly and genuinely.

Let's stop with this epistemot already and engage with proper pushback instead of this weird shame thing people keep trying to do.

 

[Nikólaos666]

My ex girlfriend is in the past, and I was looking for input from an outside perspective after I was discarded twice. I had a few people who were supportive specifically who replied but most said nothing which is fine. I'm not saying everyone isn't supportive and don't mean to discredit who are, but they aren't the majority.

As I was there everytime, absolutly no one discarded you. We offered an ear for you to let the pressure off. We were supportive. There was 1 or 2 members with false beliefs about homosexuality. We are individual people following the same organization but we are not the legal perspective of ToZ. People are inclined to their own beliefs. Only by advancing on the path of Ma'at, things will get clearer, for them, me and you.

You could have also came here, on the forum, to receive better support, as the chat is harder to follow up.

 

[Asra]

Is it not a fact the immune system goes down? You just admitted it yourself. This has more to do with what the seed does than any opinion if its good or not. Claiming it to be unhealthy is more subjective but their point was based on something instead of pulling out of thin air. I presented the information on what might be meant and added that BluecollarButch should move on from feeling personally attacked as this place isn't for validation of sexuality and a waste of time to change people's opinions (those who do have it) on it. We weren't even in place where homosexuality was being bashed. It was a simple back and forth, smh.

You seem to be confusing a few things.

It is a fact that male homosexual sex can cause irritation. What is not a a fact, is going from this biological effect to implying that homosexuality is unhealthy and pretending that anal fissures work as a good argument to discredit a trait at the soul level, or a healthy relationship between 2 individuals.

Not validating a sexuality is different from treating it this way. You say you have no opinion, so I assume it wasn't your intention. I'm simply telling you this is the way your long list of replies comes off, otherwise, I'm personally lost on what else you are trying to prove using anal irritation. Was it just a biological fact check? Because then, you're correct. Why insist on it? I'm sure every homosexual man knows what he's signing up for when deciding to go third base.

As about being misinterpreted, I'll tell you plainly why your replies sounded like that. They build on the other member's, who, in a great bout of sincerity, called homosexual sex "bad for your health". Your replies all invoke a negative biological effect, essentially acting as a justification to this claim.

Let's stop with this epistemot already and engage with proper pushback instead of this weird shame thing people keep trying to do.

One more thing, you make a pages-long reply finding fault in the way other people have intercourse. This functions as a shame tactic, because sex is a sensitive topic for the majority of people.

 

[hailourtruegod]

You seem to be confusing a few things.

It is a fact that male homosexual sex can cause irritation. What is not a a fact, is going from this biological effect to implying that homosexuality is unhealthy and pretending that anal fissures work as a good argument to discredit a trait at the soul level, or a healthy relationship between 2 individuals.

Not validating a sexuality is different from treating it this way. You say you have no opinion, so I assume it wasn't your intention. I'm simply telling you this is the way your long list of replies comes off, otherwise, I'm personally lost on what else you are trying to prove using anal irritation. Was it just a biological fact check? Because then, you're correct. Why insist on it? I'm sure every homosexual man knows what he's signing up for when deciding to go third base.

As about being misinterpreted, I'll tell you plainly why your replies sounded like that. They build on the other member's, who, in a great bout of sincerity, called homosexual sex "bad for your health". Your replies all invoke a negative biological effect, essentially acting as a justification to this claim.


One more thing, you make a pages-long reply finding fault in the way other people have intercourse. This functions as a shame tactic, because sex is a sensitive topic for the majority of people.

There you go. Assumptions instead of asking for clarifications...

 

[Asra]

There you go. Assumptions instead of asking for clarifications...

I'm not digging more into your intentions specifically because I don't want to assume. Your behaviour doesn't need clarifications either because it is displayed here in the open. If there's a gap between what you wanted to display and what it came across as, that's not a problem that has anything to do with me. I'm also not shaming you or arguing with you.

 

[hailourtruegod]

I'm not digging more into your intentions specifically because I don't want to assume. Your behaviour doesn't need clarifications either because it is displayed here in the open. If there's a gap between what you wanted to display and what it came across as, that's not a problem that has anything to do with me. I'm also not shaming you or arguing with you.

So you're allowed to dismiss how you are perceived then? But telling me to watch my words. How do you not see the obvious.

The answer is because you guys came into this with high emotions. You can't help it but perceive things this way because of the fact that you admitted you and others are sensitive about. That is what is happening here. I already admitted and said I am aware of how I can sound on an online board and expressed myself better but you dismissed that and stuck on to what angered you. Yeah, no arguing but you sure aren't trying to be in my shoes even though I am trying to and that's why I said I am only doing a back and forth conversation so no need to assume I am against anything.

Is this too long of a reply for you too? Yes, I am being snippy because my patience is being spit back into face and now I have devolved into your way.

 

[Asra]

So you're allowed to dismiss how you are perceived then? But telling me to watch my words. How do you not see the obvious.

The answer is because you guys came into this with high emotions. You can't help it but perceive things this way because of the fact that you admitted you and others are sensitive about. That is what is happening here. I already admitted and said I am aware of how I can sound on an online board and expressed myself better but you dismissed that and stuck on to what angered you. Yeah, no arguing but you sure aren't trying to be in my shoes even though I am trying to and that's why I said I am only doing a back and forth conversation so no need to assume I am against anything.

Is this too long of a reply for you too? Yes, I am being snippy because my patience is being spit back into face and now I have devolved into your way.

I was telling you it's better to avoid looking like you support incorrect claims, that you apparently don't believe in anyway, given you said you don't have an opinion. 90% if not more of the human population is emotional about sex. You're being ironic on purpose, and I could say you're being emotional here. Unless you're open to understanding where criticism comes from, there's nothing I can do to help you. I'm also not forcing you to hold a conversation or expect you to do a kneeling apology, so I think this attiude is unwarranted.

 

[Nikólaos666]

We should all take a deep breath and go outside and enjoy nature. Take the time to meditate and advance. This is an emotionnal thread and everyone should understand how what you are writing can be misinterpret.

 

[Asra]

I am leaving this here, because the discussion crossed into unproductive territory. I had nothing against your delivery, as you seem to believe. It didn't look overly harsh to me. My problem was with the correlation you made, so with the content. My aim was to let you know your words are not only different from the Temple's stance, but also disrespectful toward some of its members. This isn't something that can easily be misinterpreted or treated like a wrongdoing, so I suggest you reflect on why it seemed that way to you. In case it's harder to read tone in texting, I have no resentment or hate for you.

 

[hailourtruegod]

. You're being ironic on purpose, (assumption)

This is what i personally never liked in general and why I am losing patience. Assumption instead of asking for clarification.

Again, it was a back and forth only. I meant no offense and only wanted to engage in discussion. But instead it was taken as an attack because people can't handle basic dialogue anymore even in this place.

Criticism and emotional pushback are entirely different. But you did mix them together. Let's not pretend that you didn't.

 

[hailourtruegod]

I am leaving this here, because the discussion crossed into unproductive territory. I had nothing against your delivery, as you seem to believe. It didn't look overly harsh to me. My problem was with the correlation you made, so with the content. My aim was to let you know your words are not only different from the Temple's stance, but also disrespectful toward some of its members. This isn't something that can easily be misinterpreted or treated like a wrongdoing, so I suggest you reflect on why it seemed that way to you. In case it's harder to read tone in texting, I have no resentment or hate for you.

Fair enough. Perhaps I did the same towards you and perceived all this wrong myself and it looks like you're giving me the same grace.

I'll keep your advice in mind.

 

[Bluecollarbutch666]

As I was there everytime, absolutly no one discarded you. We offered an ear for you to let the pressure off. We were supportive. There was 1 or 2 members with false beliefs about homosexuality. We are individual people following the same organization but we are not the legal perspective of ToZ. People are inclined to their own beliefs. Only by advancing on the path of Ma'at, things will get clearer, for them, me and you.

You could have also came here, on the forum, to receive better support, as the chat is harder to follow up.

You misunderstand me. I meant that my ex partner discarded me twice. I regret replying at all to this thread for any reason in the first place. It was stupid I wish you well

 

[Asra]

Criticism and emotional pushback are entirely different. But you did mix them together. Let's not pretend that you didn't.

I did: I criticized an argument, and then I pushed back on the implications of the initial claim. The reason I pushed back is because we know it to be incorrect, as it was stated before that homosexual relations are okay. It's normal for incorrect statements to get push-back. It isn't personal to any member here, and it's not a contradiction to the biological truth you mentioned.

 

[Wotanwarrior]

In ancient times there was no formal marriage between homosexual people, because in 99% of cases they were contracts to unite families and to have children and continue lineages, in most cases people did not even get married because they loved their partner, but because of contracts and political, social and family duties.

 

[Nikólaos666]

You misunderstand me. I meant that my ex partner discarded me twice. I regret replying at all to this thread for any reason in the first place. It was stupid I wish you well

I am sorry for misunderstanding your words. You are able to express yourself and we are too. This wasn't stupid of yourself since you had concern about the opinions of certain people. Clarification is always needed for subject like this one.

I also wish you well.

 

[Asra]

This is what i personally never liked in general and why I am losing patience. Assumption instead of asking for clarification.

Again, it was a back and forth only. I meant no offense and only wanted to engage in discussion. But instead it was taken as an attack because people can't handle basic dialogue anymore even in this place.

Brother, again, there is an ongoing inconsistency. Your irony in that reply wasn't an assumption on my side, as someone had the grace to alter my reply in the quote to mention it. It was clear as day. You can't label everything you disagree off as people assuming things about you.

 

[hailourtruegod]

Brother, again, there is an ongoing inconsistency. Your irony in that reply wasn't an assumption on my side, as someone had the grace to alter my reply in the quote to mention it. It was clear as day. You can't label everything you disagree off as people assuming things about you.

Reading your other reply and this one, this is just a matter of misinterpretation, in regards to only me and you. We'd have to dissect every moment from here on out for me to prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt I was not doing what you perceived (I'll use that word instead of using 'assuming') it as and why it in my opinion it is not viable to see it that way. We already said we'll both take our words to be more considerate and I think that's the best we can do.

As for the topic, I am experiencing how sensitive it is to people even in this place, firsthand. I do not agree with these reactions even if it has to do with personal things. At least not towards me or even Ài Gōng but I can only speak for myself. But that is my opinion and I don't expect people to react towards topics in the same robotic manner I know I can do that comes off as rude when my intention was the opposite.

Regardless, being good at delivery in my words is part of being of the Theophoros path and that is what I am taking with me from this situation. Thank you for taking time to reply like this.

 

[Ài Gōng]

So what is your own opinion on homosexuality?

It's a mortal/biological tendency and not much to be obsessed over - something that does not belong in spiritual topics other than "ok this chart placement means this person has these sexual tastes", and that's about it.
Just accept yourself and go with the flow, if you feel attracted to women now don't try to block or obsess over "how many partners" you are "supposed to have" due to feelings. Be honest and act like you would normally.

Did I miss an update? Weren't all 3 sexual orientations normal traits the soul keeps throughout lifetimes?

Normal? Yes. The rest are assumptions from the older framework, basically people just repeated these statements in the Yahoo groups and no one ever questioned those are tabu and emotional topics for some people. If you didn't participate in the discussions of the SG's (and now Priest and NP), also replies made by HP ZM (most of the times, "walking on eggs" due to the responses on people), my reply above sums these up in a simplifying manner, I hope it makes sense.

 

[hailourtruegod]

Normal? Yes. The rest are assumptions from the older framework, basically people just repeated these statements in the Yahoo groups and no one ever questioned those are tabu and emotional topics for some people. If you didn't participate in the discussions of the SG's (and now Priest and NP), also replies made by HP ZM (most of the times, "walking on eggs" due to the responses on people), my reply above sums these up in a simplifying manner, I hope it makes sense.

That's what I meant about the shaming of sharing information between peoples. No one was attacked for their sexuality. It was wrongly perceived as so (at least I can honestly say in regards to you and I) and we can spend a lot of time pointing to many reasons why they might but I lean towards the reason you mention that we pretty much have to walk on eggshells when replying to people.

If long term members feel like we shouldn't change the approach to discourse on this topic then I see it as a waste of time to keep engaging in these topics. Might as well be banned just like the political discussions since these are the exact same reactions. Look now we have to validate ourselves as people just like in political topics instead of engaging in objective discourse.

Like I said, I'll better my delivery but I highly disagree with acting sensitive on simple back and forth discussions.

 

[Asra]

INormal? Yes. The rest are assumptions from the older framework, basically people just repeated these statements in the Yahoo groups and no one ever questioned those are tabu and emotional topics for some people. If you didn't participate in the discussions of the SG's (and now Priest and NP), also replies made by HP ZM (most of the times, "walking on eggs" due to the responses on people), my reply above sums these up in a simplifying manner, I hope it makes sense.

I know the position on transgenderism and I share it. My replies were solely about homosexuality.

 

[Ài Gōng]

I know the position on transgenderism and I share it. My replies were solely about homosexuality.

My reply to luis has nothing to do with transgenderism, I told you to read it on exactly the topic of homosexuality.

 

[Asra]

My reply to luis has nothing to do with transgenderism, I told you to read it on exactly the topic of homosexuality.

We share this point of view as well. I regard it as something normal, certainly not a focus of ToZ, neither something to be disputed or argued.

 

[Ol argedco luciftias]

What I am about to say is not to anybody directly. It is for everybody to read if they want to. I am not saying that being gay is bad, because it is fine. Some people are gay and that is fine.

Imagine thinking that being gay is the most important thing about you, or the biggest thing in your life, that you would run away from the school of the Gods and spiritual advancement just because a couple people think that anal sex is physically unhealthy? What a joke. Especially when what was said is not even any official religious or spiritual statement and is only an opinion by literally a few people.

If you want to leave, then leave. I don't understand people threatening to leave as if it is an attempt of blackmail to force someone else to change their beliefs to get you to stay. At least from a longer term member it means more than it usually does for the people who usually say this kind of thing, who are members for 2 months or less. But it still means nothing.

Imagine the clownshow of thinking that being homosexual is the focus or the highest description of your entire life, that this is sacred or meaningful above all other things and even above learning, spiritual growth and advancement. There are many gay people who are deeply boring and uninteresting who claim that the state of being homosexual is literally their only and entire personality trait, because they have no personality or interests in any other thing.

I am heterosexual. Being heterosexual is not my entire personality, and it is not my only interest. It is one of the least important qualities or description about me, it is not one of the most important. Being heterosexual is not more important than spiritual growth and advancement, it is not more important than learning, and it is not more important than the Gods. Being heterosexual simply is not important and does not matter, just like being homosexual is not important and does not matter. If whether you are attracted to a man or a woman is anywhere near the top of the list of what is the most important thing about you, you need to basically get a life. Get some hobbies, learn some skills, learn about things that interest you, develop some talents and abilities. Learn a musical instrument, create artwork, learn a new language, practice cooking, learn about electronics or whatever else. But please develop some kind of skills, interests, or abilities. Do some kind of fulfilling work that is beneficial for yourself and beneficial for the world. "Get a life."


A homosexual person should not leave from here because literally a small handful of people think that some gay actions are physically unhealthy. A heterosexual person should not leave from here because a small handful of people think that that is bad somehow. People should not be wanting to leave from here over just the smallest and most insignificant differences of opinions with any other member. The only thing this shows is a lack of personal confidence. If you are right and you know that you are right, you would not fear anybody disagreeing with you about some small thing because they are wrong anyway. Or if you want to follow the truth, if you want to learn to actually be very smart and correct instead of actually being ignorant, wrong, and too unconfident to admit the truth, then you would enjoy speaking with people who disagree with yourself. You would enjoy speaking with people who have different ideas, different opinions, and know different true facts and valid information that yourself might have never heard. If you are right, you can teach the other person and now you both can be right. If you are wrong, you can learn from the other person and now you both can be right. The only possible negative outcome is by somebody being too closed minded to listen to what anyone else says, and refusing to participate honestly in the conversation.

 

[Ol argedco luciftias]

Being heterosexual is fine. It is the normal way that most people are supposed to be. Being homosexual is fine. It is the normal way that a small percentage of people are supposed to be. That is basically the end of it.

 

[Bluecollarbutch666]

What I am about to say is not to anybody directly. It is for everybody to read if they want to. I am not saying that being gay is bad, because it is fine. Some people are gay and that is fine.

Imagine thinking that being gay is the most important thing about you, or the biggest thing in your life, that you would run away from the school of the Gods and spiritual advancement just because a couple people think that anal sex is physically unhealthy? What a joke. Especially when what was said is not even any official religious or spiritual statement and is only an opinion by literally a few people.

If you want to leave, then leave. I don't understand people threatening to leave as if it is an attempt of blackmail to force someone else to change their beliefs to get you to stay. At least from a longer term member it means more than it usually does for the people who usually say this kind of thing, who are members for 2 months or less. But it still means nothing.

Imagine the clownshow of thinking that being homosexual is the focus or the highest description of your entire life, that this is sacred or meaningful above all other things and even above learning, spiritual growth and advancement. There are many gay people who are deeply boring and uninteresting who claim that the state of being homosexual is literally their only and entire personality trait, because they have no personality or interests in any other thing.

I am heterosexual. Being heterosexual is not my entire personality, and it is not my only interest. It is one of the least important qualities or description about me, it is not one of the most important. Being heterosexual is not more important than spiritual growth and advancement, it is not more important than learning, and it is not more important than the Gods. Being heterosexual simply is not important and does not matter, just like being homosexual is not important and does not matter. If whether you are attracted to a man or a woman is anywhere near the top of the list of what is the most important thing about you, you need to basically get a life. Get some hobbies, learn some skills, learn about things that interest you, develop some talents and abilities. Learn a musical instrument, create artwork, learn a new language, practice cooking, learn about electronics or whatever else. But please develop some kind of skills, interests, or abilities. Do some kind of fulfilling work that is beneficial for yourself and beneficial for the world. "Get a life."


A homosexual person should not leave from here because literally a small handful of people think that some gay actions are physically unhealthy. A heterosexual person should not leave from here because a small handful of people think that that is bad somehow. People should not be wanting to leave from here over just the smallest and most insignificant differences of opinions with any other member. The only thing this shows is a lack of personal confidence. If you are right and you know that you are right, you would not fear anybody disagreeing with you about some small thing because they are wrong anyway. Or if you want to follow the truth, if you want to learn to actually be very smart and correct instead of actually being ignorant, wrong, and too unconfident to admit the truth, then you would enjoy speaking with people who disagree with yourself. You would enjoy speaking with people who have different ideas, different opinions, and know different true facts and valid information that yourself might have never heard. If you are right, you can teach the other person and now you both can be right. If you are wrong, you can learn from the other person and now you both can be right. The only possible negative outcome is by somebody being too closed minded to listen to what anyone else says, and refusing to participate honestly in the conversation.

Neither me or anyone said anything about making homosexuality our whole identity or personality me least of all.a Homosexual person who simply wants to be accepted and not feel alienated isn't trying to make the orientation their whole identity or personality while asking for this. It really sucks to still have to explain that.

It's not about being insecure or difference of opinion, I'm not blackmailing anyone to anything and am not trying to push them to believe anything else. Just because I'm leaving the forums also doesn't mean that I'm abandoning my practices. You even stated here yourself a couple years ago on a post that people can commune with the gods and follow the practices without even having to interact with the forums at all. I remember this quite specifically and there's nothing wrong with this at all. Me wanting to do this isn't me abandoning the toz or because I feel insecure about a difference of opinion or my Identity or because I'm trying to make homosexuality my whole personality. This isn't the only reason why I'm separating from the forums either, and I reference that also in another comment about things that I've kept silent about for a long time that I just don't want to go on about. I have a lot of feelings and thoughts about things that honestly sadden and frustrate me and I need to be alone with them.

 

[Ol argedco luciftias]

Neither me or anyone said anything about making homosexuality our whole identity or personality me least of all.a Homosexual person who simply wants to be accepted and not feel alienated isn't trying to make the orientation their whole identity or personality while asking for this. It really sucks to still have to explain that.

It's not about being insecure or difference of opinion, I'm not blackmailing anyone to anything and am not trying to push them to believe anything else. Just because I'm leaving the forums also doesn't mean that I'm abandoning my practices. You even stated here yourself a couple years ago on a post that people can commune with the gods and follow the practices without even having to interact with the forums at all. I remember this quite specifically and there's nothing wrong with this at all. Me wanting to do this isn't me abandoning the toz or because I feel insecure about a difference of opinion or my Identity or because I'm trying to make homosexuality my whole personality. This isn't the only reason why I'm separating from the forums either, and I reference that also in another comment about things that I've kept silent about for a long time that I just don't want to go on about. I have a lot of feelings and thoughts about things that honestly sadden and frustrate me and I need to be alone with them.

Being saddened and frustrated is a normal thing that can happen with anybody sometimes, but being alone with it is usually not the right answer. That is usually how these emotions will be continuing to get worse. It is like instead of an infected injury being carefully cleaned out so it can heal correctly, it is instead being covered up where the infection continues to grow and rot.

I am wrong about some things sometimes. I have been wrong about things before, and I will be wrong about some things in the future. You can also take things I have said before in the wrong context, and assume that I meant something that I did not actually mean. Me saying that something is possible is not necessarily saying that it is at all a good idea.

Of course people have their own connection personally between themselves and the Gods, and they can be working on advancement and growth without coming here. It is also true that new upgraded and amplified spiritual information is continuing to be consistently added here, which people will not receive if they are not here to see it. What we have today is a million times stronger than what we had 10 years ago, and a person who left from here 10 years ago and worked alone for all these years without coming here to learn the upgraded information will be enormously held back in comparison.

To leave just because some people say that it is a medical fact that there are physical health problems from anal sex, which is supported by real life examples and medical studies. It is ridiculous. I don't think that anybody even said that being gay is bad or anything like that. So if you are putting this above your spiritual growth and advancement by leaving this place of enlightenment and education, it is a mistake. And it is acting like your own emotional reaction is the most important thing, or more important than your continued growth in the most successful way. Instead of running away whenever you have your own bad emotional reaction, consider thinking why do you react that way to begin with? Why are you choosing to feel that emotion? And after feeling it, why do you then let that emotion control your life? Because you can say the same thing to 1,000 people, and all 1,000 of them will react with a different emotion. This is personal choice and you can choose to feel or react with a different emotion instead. None of this is outside of your own control.