Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?

[Avogrado]

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

 

[enemyofjezzuz]

--- In [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url], "Avogrado" <nshayaun@... wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a

spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did,
almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around
his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are
many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even

reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would
only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said
he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was
practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a
Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The
kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and
bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found).
The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was
pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus

(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close

(something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything
else is kept secret.

Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his

writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is
completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue
an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal
(which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass,
to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical
pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done
his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried
their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as
Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the

kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his
now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his
wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to
push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of
this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a
genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more
ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of
his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane
magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they
dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the
plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile
would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an
alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew
idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire
lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and
I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

I will add that, whatever Newton postulated, helped advance society. He
wasn't always right, but he did a lot to advance physics and math. We
still rely on Newton's principles for a lot of things--and that includes
light and color, inertia, gravity, and thermodynamics.

Which is more than I can say for Kikestein. Everything Kikestein put
out was either stolen from other scientists (usually corrupted),
bullshit, or designed to stop science in its tracks. Thanks to
Kikestein, we do not have anyone working on rockets that travel faster
than light. Any person with an IQ of 100 can figure out that faster
than light travel is not only possible but regularly happens. Light
travels at that speed--relative to what? Where is the absolute point?
So, Kikestein is saying that if I turn on a light on a planet moving
away from the center of the universe, the light moving on the far side
is going to slow way down? What if I turn on another light on a planet
on the opposite side? Both are moving at walking-speed slower than
light relative to the center--that is double the speed of light relative
to each other. And, the light moving away from the planet is moving 4
times the speed of light relative to the light on the other side moving
in the opposite direction. Kikestein, any explanations?

 

[kvnfidler]

I never thought about that, but the way the kikes tried to spin him as an xian reminds me of how the kikes on history channel tried to say Ben Franklin was an xian. There is much work to be done in correcting what history books say, someday there will have to be a Nazi style book burning.

--- In [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url], "Avogrado" <nshayaun@... wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

 

[Don Danko]

Newton was a high ranking Mason before the enemy corruption got deep enough in. He was once called the "Last of the Magican's." In respect to its great knowledge of ancient Sumerian and general Mesopotamian Pagan civilizations. Which he lectured on openly. A person can see the great minds of the time where guided by the Luciferian principals of nature taught within the original Masons. As even the very thinking process to develop science to such a high level requires the opposite of xian basics in preception. The church almost burned the man who invented eye glasses at the stake for a reason. Its no mistake the Luciferian Founders used the symbol of the Laws of Maat to relate the fact America was a nation built upon Dharma or in english the Eternal Natural Way [law].  The books the National Socialists symbolically burned where those of the jewish Frankfurt school of cultural marxism. The stated goal of these jews was to create a psychological weaponized ideology to destroy Germany from within and pull it down into a international communist, slave state. The book burning was done as a powerful symbol to show the German People had broken the chains of jewish slavery and where once again a free People.  
  From: kvnfidler <kvnfidler@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 7:59:15 PM
Subject: [JoyofSatan666] Re: Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?

  I never thought about that, but the way the kikes tried to spin him as an xian reminds me of how the kikes on history channel tried to say Ben Franklin was an xian. There is much work to be done in correcting what history books say, someday there will have to be a Nazi style book burning.

--- In mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com, "Avogrado" <nshayaun@... wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

 

[Don Danko]

I will also add the fact of the tale of him sitting under the apple tree. Could be a hidden allegory to this fact.
From: kvnfidler <kvnfidler@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 7:59:15 PM
Subject: [JoyofSatan666] Re: Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?

  I never thought about that, but the way the kikes tried to spin him as an xian reminds me of how the kikes on history channel tried to say Ben Franklin was an xian. There is much work to be done in correcting what history books say, someday there will have to be a Nazi style book burning.

--- In mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com, "Avogrado" <nshayaun@... wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

 

[kvnfidler]

What you said makes sense Don, all I meant is history lacks truth. Its usually written in such a way that the "winner" of a war is the good guys and the "loser" is the bad guys. WW2 and the civil war are 2 examples of what I mean. The Nazi's were defending themselves and the jew media portrayed them as the instigators, then theres the holyhoax. I recently did some research on the civil war, the actual reason for the war wasnt over slavery (much of the south if not all had already freed the slaves) it was federalists vs states rights. Northern states didnt free northern slaves until the emancipation proclamation, and delaware didnt until 1901, but thats not what the history books say.
Kevin

Hail Satan!!!
Hail Buer!!!
Hail Anubis!!!

--- In [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url], Don Danko <mageson6666@... wrote:
@
Newton was a high ranking Mason before the enemy corruption got deep enough in. He was once called the "Last of the Magican's." In respect to its great knowledge of ancient Sumerian and general Mesopotamian Pagan civilizations. Which he lectured on openly. A person can see the great minds of the time where guided by the Luciferian principals of nature taught within the original Masons. As even the very thinking process to develop science to such a high level requires the opposite of xian basics in preception. The church almost burned the man who invented eye glasses at the stake for a reason.
 
Its no mistake the Luciferian Founders used the symbol of the Laws of Maat to relate the fact America was a nation built upon Dharma or in english the Eternal Natural Way [law].
 
 
The books the National Socialists symbolically burned where those of the jewish Frankfurt school of cultural marxism. The stated goal of these jews was to create a psychological weaponized ideology to destroy Germany from within and pull it down into a international communist, slave state.
 
The book burning was done as a powerful symbol to show the German People had broken the chains of jewish slavery and where once again a free People.
 
 

 

________________________________
From: kvnfidler <kvnfidler@...
To: [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 7:59:15 PM
Subject: [JoyofSatan666] Re: Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?



 

I never thought about that, but the way the kikes tried to spin him as an xian reminds me of how the kikes on history channel tried to say Ben Franklin was an xian. There is much work to be done in correcting what history books say, someday there will have to be a Nazi style book burning.

--- In mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com, "Avogrado" <nshayaun@ wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew
idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?

 

[Don Danko]

The jews where behind the America civil war as I wrote about in my updated article on the banks.
From: kvnfidler <kvnfidler@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 6:51:53 AM
Subject: [JoyofSatan666] Re: Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?

  What you said makes sense Don, all I meant is history lacks truth. Its usually written in such a way that the "winner" of a war is the good guys and the "loser" is the bad guys. WW2 and the civil war are 2 examples of what I mean. The Nazi's were defending themselves and the jew media portrayed them as the instigators, then theres the holyhoax. I recently did some research on the civil war, the actual reason for the war wasnt over slavery (much of the south if not all had already freed the slaves) it was federalists vs states rights. Northern states didnt free northern slaves until the emancipation proclamation, and delaware didnt until 1901, but thats not what the history books say.
Kevin

Hail Satan!!!
Hail Buer!!!
Hail Anubis!!!

--- In mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com, Don Danko <mageson6666@... wrote:
@
Newton was a high ranking Mason before the enemy corruption got deep enough in. He was once called the "Last of the Magican's." In respect to its great knowledge of ancient Sumerian and general Mesopotamian Pagan civilizations. Which he lectured on openly. A person can see the great minds of the time where guided by the Luciferian principals of nature taught within the original Masons. As even the very thinking process to develop science to such a high level requires the opposite of xian basics in preception. The church almost burned the man who invented eye glasses at the stake for a reason.
 
Its no mistake the Luciferian Founders used the symbol of the Laws of Maat to relate the fact America was a nation built upon Dharma or in english the Eternal Natural Way [law].
 
 
The books the National Socialists symbolically burned where those of the jewish Frankfurt school of cultural marxism. The stated goal of these jews was to create a psychological weaponized ideology to destroy Germany from within and pull it down into a international communist, slave state.
 
The book burning was done as a powerful symbol to show the German People had broken the chains of jewish slavery and where once again a free People.
 
 

 

________________________________
From: kvnfidler <kvnfidler@...
To: mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 7:59:15 PM
Subject: [JoyofSatan666] Re: Was Isaac Newton a Satanist?



 

I never thought about that, but the way the kikes tried to spin him as an xian reminds me of how the kikes on history channel tried to say Ben Franklin was an xian. There is much work to be done in correcting what history books say, someday there will have to be a Nazi style book burning.

--- In mailto:JoyofSatan666%40yahoogroups.com, "Avogrado" <nshayaun@ wrote:

I have reasonable suspicion that Isaac Newton might have been a spiritual satanist. First off he was very talented in what he did, almost to "god-like" extents. Secondly, he opposed the Xian rule around his vicinity, it was said he absolutely HATED it. Thirdly, there are many, many accounts of him being affiliated with occult practices.

Now this is where I believe he is not only an SS, but might have even reached Godhead. He had an apprentice in his 30+ years, and he would only instruct this apprentice to come in at certain times, it was said he would receive hours upon hours of solitude. No one knew he was practicing the occult (an act punishable by death at the time) until a Gentile discovered journals which at the time was indecipherable. The kikes of course, were pissed off (for reasons I will explain), and bought off this journal in an auction (now it is nowhere to be found). The information released from the journal is two things: (1) he was pursuing the philosopher's stone through way of magnum opus
(2) one of his last records shown he describes he was very, very close (something to do with the color purple, though I'm not sure). Everything else is kept secret.


Now what the kikes did was to pass off the obvious allegory behind his writings as the PHYSICAL pursuit of the philosopher's stone, which is completely false. Why would one of the world's greatest geniuses pursue an unobtainable physical object? and at it record successes in a journal (which was black btw). it is a facade that the kikes are trying to pass, to make it seem as if Newton was a Xian. You can look up his alchemical pursuits online, though the kike owner of his occult studies has done his best to keep away any information pertaining to it. They have tried their best to restore Newton's image as a Xian, but this is false as Newton was known to blasphemy the establishment during his time.

Two more things to bare in mind are that Newton was opposed by the kike institute of scientific review at his first display of his now-accepted theories, they shunned him and even laughed at him for his wavelength color theory. Then when proven true, the kikes attempted to push one of their own scientists as having been the original finder of this theory, and Newton was a plagiarizer. But Newton, having been a genius, proved them wrong, and went on to conceive even more ground-breaking theories, thus making him impermeable to a kike-sully of his image (though they attempt to do that by painting him an insane magician nowadays). The kikes eventually got their wish though, as they dethroned him as the "king of science", with the instillation of the plagiarizer-Mr.Einstein. They could not bare the fact that a Gentile would be the face of a very important field of life, much less an alleged occultist, so they HAD to introduce this false scientific jew
idol. And lastly, Newton had only one true friend in his entire lifetime, and he was described being alone for multitudes of hours, and I severely doubt ALL he was doing was science/math during this time.

Any thoughts?