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Muses Discussion Thread [Nov 12th: Urania]

AvatarNovice Priest Karnonnos2 min to read

As listed on the Announcement of the Muses Rituals, here as a counterpart to what we do on Agora, I will provide an excerpt each day for forum members to speak about if they wish, so they can engage with it.

Today is Mnemosyne's Ritual. @Astrid [NG] provided something related to the concept of memory and Mnemosyne, a clip from a recent sci-fi film, "Arrival" (2016):

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CONTEXT: The character is called Louise Banks. She lives during a time when alien spacecraft all come around Earth, causing mass panic. She is tasked by the government to research the language of aliens called 'cephalopods'. Studying it causes her to have psychic visions and flashbacks of her dying daughter, along with the future.

Louise discovers the aliens process time and know fate differently to humanity, and that knowing their language creates side effects; her understanding of fate through learning their language and visions has repercussions for her as a human being. On the other hand, her knowing their language technically saves humanity from complete disaster and tearing each other apart.

Here are some questions for discussion. You can answer just one if you want:

  • What does the clip make you feel?

  • How do you think it relates to memory?

  • How do you think the themes relate to fate?

  • What is interesting about the imagery (what you can see in the clip)?

  • What would happen if humanity really did have knowledge like this?

  • How does this relate to Mnemosyne, the Ritual and the Orphic Tablets?

Finally:

  • Have you ever had false memories?

  • What's an important memory to you? [do not have to be overly specific or revealing]

  • What do you think is most important to memorize?

ΕΠΙΣΤΑΜΑΙΟΡΧΕΙΣΘΑΙ

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#21

A song I'd like to discuss with Polyhymnia's day is Musette and Drums by Cocteau Twins (1983).

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This is an early alternate rock song where the vocals and dense instrumentation almost seem to compete with each other in a spiralling effect to produce something heavy. The singer has stated before she often does not write lyrics, but improvises them based on how she feels, while her singing is intentionally vaguely expressed with slurred diction in a way that accompanies the projection of the audience.

Songs and hymns in ancient Greece sometimes had a prophetic function of channelling lyrics. The atmosphere and sound design of the song seems to show something vast and powerful and stormy that expresses in parts tone of regret and sadness. The fact the title references a musette and the lyrics appear to reference Juliet from Shakespeare's play and her tragic demise ties in with the theme here.

  1. What do you think of the song?

  2. Does the lyrical veiling of the song have a relation to the ineffable nature of silence in some way?

  3. Is singing always meant to convey a communicative message that is easily understood?

Discussion:

  • Who are your favorite singers and why?

  • What value do you find in silence, and when do you engage in it?

  • Has singing ever enthralled you completely?

ΕΠΙΣΤΑΜΑΙΟΡΧΕΙΣΘΑΙ

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Endóxos Stylobátēs

My taste in music has changed drastically. I do try to keep a very broad taste in music. I have noticed overtime the profound effect the music I listen to can affect me over time. I do like to tap into certain music to explore my emotions, some singers are so powerful they can evoke tears from my eyes just by listening.

Silence is honestly something that is extremely under valued, in our society we are often plagued by constant noise, it can cause a lot of issues and the more constant stimulation we receive the more we shy away from silence when it’s most needed.

moments of true silence often start causing every chaotic feeling and energy in my mind and soul to slowly fall back into place, it brings stability and direction. Among other things .

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Pammy

Is singing always meant to convey a communicative message that is easily understood?

No, no form of art is.

  • Who are your favorite singers and why?

This is not a favorite singer, this is something I'm fascinated by and would like to mention.

When singers who sing about drugs, guns, violence, using insults, degrading words for women, threats, and similar make a song for their daughters and God, I'm fascinated:

Bombs are splitting atoms, what can the future bring?
We can fill a million сhоirs and wait till children sing
We can walk a million miles and end up in the sea
And our lungs just keep filling and lying when we breathe
The world's filled with liars, liars like me
And I look at my child, it's finite, this feeling
Eyes blue like the sky, I see all of this meaning
I reach up to God, and I ask if I'm dreaming
So sorry, I don't have those things that you needing
Darling, a kiss? Kiss me, I'm leaving

And naming it SCAVA presumably after their daughters Scarlet and Ava. It is just fascinating to me, were you not singing about getting drunk and doing drugs? And now you sing You ask who you love, and you don't know, no, do you? / The spirit of God just passes right through you / You gave away heaven, handed right to you

Eminem's Mockingbird, is similar in feeling. Very niche, maybe I like it when rappers sing to their daughters.
Maybe I like to see the range of human, from the disgusting and ugly to love for their child and prayer to God, how can they exist inside the same soul?

#23
This is the targeted message.

Humans by nature are very forgetful, even when it comes to matters of their own signs and relations to the Gods, this is one of the reasons keeping a journal is so valuable.

If humanity really did have knowledge like this , I think it would greatly improve our accountability .

Not only having clear and perfect memory, but the ability to properly connect with our future would mean that we would be forced to directly face the consequences of our actions , or inaction .

We would have a greater understanding of how our past influences how we navigate the present, and how we navigate the present changes the course of time for the rest of our future.

I think if I had a portal to look directly into my future , my death, my legacy and my achievements , or lack of,

I would certainly choose how I spend my time more wisely . This thought exercise alone is something I would like to consider and meditate upon further .

Thankyou NP 🙏🏼

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#24

Anubeion, an ancient Greek astrologer whose fragments are often carried into those of Dorotheus of Sidon, says:

Ἡ Ἀφροδίτη Σελήνην τριγωνίζουσα πραεῖς ποιεῖ καὶ ἱλαρούς, εὐμόρφους, τοὺς μέντοι γάμους ἀβεβαίους δηλοῖ.

When Venus forms a trine with the Moon, she produces people who are gentle, cheerful, and beautiful in appearance; nevertheless, she indicates unstable marriage.

Compare Apollo's Astrology (not just the trine):

Moon/Venus
These people have much artistic ability, charm, and good taste. They are often good cooks, and have much domestic ability. They are affectionate and loving. With the square, this can delay marriage if other factors support it. The hard aspects can make one feel unloved and/or unappreciated, and family members can interfere with the love life in some way. The hard aspects can make these people overindulgent and over concerned with luxuries and materialism.

People with the trine aspect, and I include controversial examples for verity's sake:

  • Sandra Bullock

  • Nicole Kidman

  • Penelope Cruz

  • Whitney Houston

  • Chris Evans

  • David Bowie

  • Mata Hari

  • Ben Affleck

  • Copernicus

  • Jules Verne

  • Ted Kaczynski (!!!)

  • Otto von Bismarck

  • Jules Verne

  • Marcel Proust

  • Ulysses S. Grant

  • Heath Ledger

  • Christy Turlington

I can see relations here. No doubt this is a prettier or more charming selection of people than average, possibly even for celebrities. Some like Bismarck are not known for beauty, but were known to possess inexplicable charm.

A large amount of these people appear to have cults of personality or reverence around them. The unstable marriage part is more contentious (Apollo's Astrology's reference to the Moon-Venus square aspect of delayed marriage seems to be more convincing). Ulysses S. Grant had a successful, long-lasting and loving marriage, though he did dispute about property (the Moon) with his wife Julia. As a individual not attuned to being with women, all of Marcel Proust's novels focus on male-female affairs and the misery involving these. Many of the cases here with the trine seem to show a trend of a long-lasting marriage.

In Mata Hari's case, however, the use of beauty ended badly, and so it was the case for Whitney Houston to an extent, though the factors above and her beautiful voice made her famous.

  • What do you think of this aspect? Is there a trend with it?

  • Do you know anyone else with it?

  • Why would the Moon and Venus produce this type of effect?

  • How would you subject this statement to a test?

Discussion:

  1. Can a single aspect reveal much about a person?

  2. What's your level of astrological expertise?

  3. How much does measure matter when studying Astrology?

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Black Book

I do see a trend with this aspect, and also the various ways in which it can manifest aside from just physical beauty. Moon rules the physical body and emotions, and Venus rules beauty and connection. Trine is the most harmonious aspect, so their trining one another can result in a beautiful physical body, a person with beautiful emotions (cheerful), and/or a person who can make beautiful connections with others (charm and gentleness).

Discussion:

1. I think a single aspect can reveal some things about a person on its own if it is tight, as this makes it stronger. If not, I think it could reveal a potential trait about the person, but the rest of the chart could move the needle in another direction.

2. I feel like I have a solid foundation in astrology, however there is much to learn. I feel like my base knowledge is strong, though complex chart synthesis seems like something that is mastered through long-term practice.

3. Measure is the backbone of Astrology. The entire chart is based off of measure. Without measure, there is nothing to interpret.