Help. ( Self-defense.)

[Shael]

...

The most important thing, much more so than techniques and all sorts of that stuff, is that you actually build up a reasonable body where you can take and throw a serious punch if the situation was to arise. If you can hone and empower your body to a point where, if someone punches you full force you just stand there unfazed by it, you should honestly be able to just avoid most small-time conflict altogether.

From what I know, much of this is a matter of intimidation. The more weak and vulnerable you look, the more likely people are to try and attack you. If you look strong and powerful, confident, then the vast majority of people will pick different targets. As such, working on this factor of intimidation and bodily power, should be your highest priority as this will avoid most conflict altogether. Idk who said it, maybe it was Sun Tsu or some other guy, but the highest virtue is to win without having to fight in the first place.

Martial arts techniques are definitely powerful and useful, especially if you are in a fight that you simply cannot prevent or escape, but bear in mind that criminals cant see that you know martial arts just by looking at you. Because of this, they first have to actually attack you before they find it out. In other words, you first have to get into a fight with them. And you want to prevent that from happening in the first place, whenever possible. This is why I think martial arts are suboptimal as a primary means of defense. Learning it on the side however, is indeed a good idea.

Look into the Iron Shirt Chi Kung series by Mantak Chia. HP Lucius mentioned it in his sermon here: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1326&p=112425#p112425

For further clarification on where the Iron Shirt material can be found, check here: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25092&p=113888#p113888

 

[Aquarius]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

 

[StyleCoin]

...

The most important thing, much more so than techniques and all sorts of that stuff, is that you actually build up a reasonable body where you can take and throw a serious punch if the situation was to arise. If you can hone and empower your body to a point where, if someone punches you full force you just stand there unfazed by it, you should honestly be able to just avoid most small-time conflict altogether.

From what I know, much of this is a matter of intimidation. The more weak and vulnerable you look, the more likely people are to try and attack you. If you look strong and powerful, confident, then the vast majority of people will pick different targets. As such, working on this factor of intimidation and bodily power, should be your highest priority as this will avoid most conflict altogether. Idk who said it, maybe it was Sun Tsu or some other guy, but the highest virtue is to win without having to fight in the first place.

Martial arts techniques are definitely powerful and useful, especially if you are in a fight that you simply cannot prevent or escape, but bear in mind that criminals cant see that you know martial arts just by looking at you. Because of this, they first have to actually attack you before they find it out. In other words, you first have to get into a fight with them. And you want to prevent that from happening in the first place, whenever possible. This is why I think martial arts are suboptimal as a primary means of defense. Learning it on the side however, is indeed a good idea.

Look into the Iron Shirt Chi Kung series by Mantak Chia. HP Lucius mentioned it in his sermon here: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1326&p=112425#p112425

For further clarification on where the Iron Shirt material can be found, check here: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25092&p=113888#p113888

Thank you shael.

I will take a look.

 

[StyleCoin]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

I think kung fu is a thousand times better than boxing.

 

[Paladin of Khepu]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

What about Russian Systema? There is sparring, also Muay Thai and taking Jeet kun do. They are really effective as a martial art. I say incorporate one of these and boxing. It's useful all around.

 

[Aquarius]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

I think kung fu is a thousand times better than boxing.

Eh, kung fu might be better but it takes way more time to be a skilled fighter than boxing.

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

What about Russian Systema? There is sparring, also Muay Thai and taking Jeet kun do. They are really effective as a martial art. I say incorporate one of these and boxing. It's useful all around.

Not so sure but I guess it’s fine, if you feel like it’s useful than it could be. The reason recommend boxing is because you will learn to take punches ad actually feel how it’s like in a fight, if it’s possible I would recommend taking mma or boxing as those are the most realistic ones that teach you to fight.

 

[Paladin of Khepu]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

I think kung fu is a thousand times better than boxing.

Eh, kung fu might be better but it takes way more time to be a skilled fighter than boxing.

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

What about Russian Systema? There is sparring, also Muay Thai and taking Jeet kun do. They are really effective as a martial art. I say incorporate one of these and boxing. It's useful all around.

Not so sure but I guess it’s fine, if you feel like it’s useful than it could be. The reason recommend boxing is because you will learn to take punches ad actually feel how it’s like in a fight, if it’s possible I would recommend taking mma or boxing as those are the most realistic ones that teach you to fight.

Mma can work, however there are things you can't do that is applied by martial artist like from Wing Chun, or Jeet Kun Do or others that don't mind hitting areas that are banned from the mma. Boxing also has some rules, so it's a hit and miss. Sure you can get hit, but it's with gloves. In the martial arts it's bare hands, and in certain ones do you feel th brunt of the attack, even with gear. It all depends.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

You should consider training boxing and brazilian jiujitsu, or wrestling(wrestlers are really strong), kick-box, or thai box, kyokushin karate is also a good one. I think if you want to become a better fighter you should pick one or two one of these, thats's effective. I think you should avoid some bullshitto kung-fu. Most kung-fu guys fail miserably when they face someone on the street. I heard that some kung-fu masters are really strong after a lots of years of training, I guess it's possible, some mma fighter also had a kung-fu background but you will not see that often. It's just not effective enough usually. The hard truth is that someone with basic boxing and wrestling skills can defeat a kung-fu guy easily. And Aikido is also worthless in my opinion. It's just fake. You should choose a martial art or a sport when you have to fight somebody, otherwise you don't stand a chance in an actual fight. But of course the best is when you can avoid fighting and resolve the problem otherwise. Furthermore if someone comes at you with a knife, or with his friends the best thing to do is run away. Of course I saw some boxer who could take on 2 or 3 guys but that is not something you see very often. Learn how to punch, kick how to throw somebody. Whatever you choose it should involve live sparring. Otherwise you will know that the coach/master/sensei just wants to take your money. And also don't get overconfident because even a lion could defeated when he faces a pack of hyenas. Mostly avoid physical confrontations you should only fight, when you have no other choice.

 

[StyleCoin]

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

I think kung fu is a thousand times better than boxing.

Eh, kung fu might be better but it takes way more time to be a skilled fighter than boxing.

The problem with martial arts as a form of self defense is that you don’t get to spar and hit your opponent, boxing is the best as you will learn to take punches and how to throw them and hit somebody. But I wouldnt expect to know how to defend yourself with kung fu

What about Russian Systema? There is sparring, also Muay Thai and taking Jeet kun do. They are really effective as a martial art. I say incorporate one of these and boxing. It's useful all around.

Not so sure but I guess it’s fine, if you feel like it’s useful than it could be. The reason recommend boxing is because you will learn to take punches ad actually feel how it’s like in a fight, if it’s possible I would recommend taking mma or boxing as those are the most realistic ones that teach you to fight.

you are right, so i will train boxing but i will focus on kung fu, thanks for helping.

 

[StyleCoin]

You should consider training boxing and brazilian jiujitsu, or wrestling(wrestlers are really strong), kick-box, or thai box, kyokushin karate is also a good one. I think if you want to become a better fighter you should pick one or two one of these, thats's effective. I think you should avoid some bullshitto kung-fu. Most kung-fu guys fail miserably when they face someone on the street. I heard that some kung-fu masters are really strong after a lots of years of training, I guess it's possible, some mma fighter also had a kung-fu background but you will not see that often. It's just not effective enough usually. The hard truth is that someone with basic boxing and wrestling skills can defeat a kung-fu guy easily. And Aikido is also worthless in my opinion. It's just fake. You should choose a martial art or a sport when you have to fight somebody, otherwise you don't stand a chance in an actual fight. But of course the best is when you can avoid fighting and resolve the problem otherwise. Furthermore if someone comes at you with a knife, or with his friends the best thing to do is run away. Of course I saw some boxer who could take on 2 or 3 guys but that is not something you see very often. Learn how to punch, kick how to throw somebody. Whatever you choose it should involve live sparring. Otherwise you will know that the coach/master/sensei just wants to take your money. And also don't get overconfident because even a lion could defeated when he faces a pack of hyenas. Mostly avoid physical confrontations you should only fight, when you have no other choice.

I will follow your advice.

 

[123KO]

I think kung fu is a thousand times better than boxing.

Eh, kung fu might be better but it takes way more time to be a skilled fighter than boxing.

What about Russian Systema? There is sparring, also Muay Thai and taking Jeet kun do. They are really effective as a martial art. I say incorporate one of these and boxing. It's useful all around.

Not so sure but I guess it’s fine, if you feel like it’s useful than it could be. The reason recommend boxing is because you will learn to take punches ad actually feel how it’s like in a fight, if it’s possible I would recommend taking mma or boxing as those are the most realistic ones that teach you to fight.

you are right, so i will train boxing but i will focus on kung fu, thanks for helping.

The problem with kung fu, boxing, muay thai or relatet stuff is they are fokused on competitions with rules. In the street there is no roul it is live or die. The best think is to avoid fights. So you permanently scan your surroundings of potential threads. There is no shame to change the sidewalk if you feel unsafe about certain people approuching you. Groop of people walking behind you. Someone does sit right next to you, even if there is enouth room to sit somewhere else. Look forward for escape roots. We did learn there are different states of awareness. with colors:

White = if you are at home or with a friend home / safe zone. if you walk and at the same time hold your phone and read stuff you are the perfect target e.g. white mode. cought without guard.

Yellow = you are anywhere else, put your hands not in your pockets or position your self in a way someone is abel to attack you from behind. in a train take the seats at the end of the wagon so you always see someone before they are near you. Same goes for waiting areals/ clubs etc. Mostly someone does notice if something is in the air ( so to speak). A good hand position is the thinking possition one hand to your chin the other hand does hold your ellbow. so you are instant ready to defend your self.

Red= you notice some trouble like someone does scream loudly or two people fighting. go in a fighting stand. scan your surroundings. put your hands open far away in front of your face (if no knifes or guns involved= then close hands you don´t want to loose your fingers and be defensless, or for guns take victim stand). your main hand a little bit back. if someone approuches you say loud and aggressive : Don't come any closer, keep your distance! If he still approches, you have the right to act first. A good opener is a snap kick right to the nuts . Most people want to hit your head/face they do not look at your feet.

Black = Shit hit the fan, fighting stand, hand positon like above or fists. i prefer open hands / hammer fists because if you hit someones head there is no risk of breaking your fingers if he suddenly lowers his head and you hit the hard parts(overal rule alway hit hard to soft , e.g. your open hand on the back of someones head or the other case your fists on someones belly. try to increase the distance to all potential threads. don´t let anybody get behind you. try to escape. if not possibel and many people are involved. grab the first reachabel person weaken him, take him as a shield. Try to arrange your oponents in a line (positioning your self). so you don´t get surroundet. fight one by one. as fast as you can escape.

As a overall rule the most weak points are: Eyes, Nose, Throat(joints also but its harder to hit). Even a 12 jear old could kill a body builder just by punshing his throad. All of the above required training etc. I learned it all from krav maga ( i know it is from the enemy) , we don´t have Yehuborim teachers. As far as i know the military also gets trained by krav maga instructors, well they get different more deadly ways tought to handel stuff but if you know the soft techniques you are abel to learn the deadly ones also. The problem is with deadly teachings if you train it you will do it in a dangerous situation. But better in jail then dead. that´s my opinion. The main aim of krav maga is to inflict as much pain as possibel in the shortest time to survive.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

Well the best thing is to avoid fights of course. About rules.. sure there are rules in many combat sports, martial arts but I think nobody is stupid enough to keep the rules during a real fight. It's not a real fight of course, but it's close to a real one. You practice it, practice it, and you will handle violent situations better. In a fight the more violent, or the more experienced, stronger fighter wins. If nobody hit you before then it's going to be real bad when you face with a brute punch in real life. And if you haven't fought with anyone before you will just freeze when someone will come at you seriously. About krav maga... I'm pretty sure you have rules there also and you don't go all out gouging each other eyes out, kicking others in the balls right? So that's makes your argument a little bit pointless, right? Of course you have the theory of how to handle these situations, but when something does happen how much of it can you use? Most of the times we see these krav maga guys fail in real fights and why is that? Because it's simply a lie that you can stop a knife even if you trained to stop it, if the attacker has a firm grip on the knife. I think no martial art or defense system can prepare you to an armed attacker. Of course I know someone who kicked a knife out of the hand of someone but obviously the attacker didn't had a firm grip on the knife, Also, krav maga is from the enemy, but sure some self defence techniques from it can be useful, but it's just seems common sense to me that in a real fight we target the enemy weak points when we can.

Well anyway stay safe, stay strong and train what you think suits you best! I hope everything works out for you, becoming stronger. Also maybe you already have friends with you but anyway it's very useful when someone has your back. Sparring partners, team members and guys from there you can be friends too.

 

[123KO]

Because it's simply a lie that you can stop a knife even if you trained to stop it, if the attacker has a firm grip on the knife. I think no martial art or defense system can prepare you to an armed attacker. Of course I know someone who kicked a knife out of the hand of someone but obviously the attacker didn't had a firm grip on the knife,

never kick after a knife. there are 4 different ways somebody can attack you with a knife,

1. slicing (horizontal cuts)
2. ice pick (target throut) diagonal cuts from above knife piont down like here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UHukSN_0U ( i do not support this defense technike)
3. niddle attacks (target belly or genitals) diagonal cuts from below knife pointet up like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY7Y1JoRnnI ( i do not support this defense technike)
4. slashing (target belly throut arms what ever leads to death)

there are many who call them krav maga but they only grab coins. like you can see on many youtube videos.
instead like in the video I would always use both hands/arms to block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8o0vmJniw
if I find time I will search for good videos against 1-3. because against 4 there is no good technique. just take what you can get and throw it at the attacker/face your telephone money what ever and run.
Most mens tend to niddle attacks, females do more ice pick attacks. That´s all I can provide so far. will update.

 

[curio]

Well the best thing is to avoid fights of course. About rules.. sure there are rules in many combat sports, martial arts but I think nobody is stupid enough to keep the rules during a real fight. It's not a real fight of course, but it's close to a real one. You practice it, practice it, and you will handle violent situations better. In a fight the more violent, or the more experienced, stronger fighter wins. If nobody hit you before then it's going to be real bad when you face with a brute punch in real life. And if you haven't fought with anyone before you will just freeze when someone will come at you seriously. About krav maga... I'm pretty sure you have rules there also and you don't go all out gouging each other eyes out, kicking others in the balls right? So that's makes your argument a little bit pointless, right? Of course you have the theory of how to handle these situations, but when something does happen how much of it can you use? Most of the times we see these krav maga guys fail in real fights and why is that? Because it's simply a lie that you can stop a knife even if you trained to stop it, if the attacker has a firm grip on the knife. I think no martial art or defense system can prepare you to an armed attacker. Of course I know someone who kicked a knife out of the hand of someone but obviously the attacker didn't had a firm grip on the knife, Also, krav maga is from the enemy, but sure some self defence techniques from it can be useful, but it's just seems common sense to me that in a real fight we target the enemy weak points when we can.

Well anyway stay safe, stay strong and train what you think suits you best! I hope everything works out for you, becoming stronger. Also maybe you already have friends with you but anyway it's very useful when someone has your back. Sparring partners, team members and guys from there you can be friends too.

It's not about how smart or stupid you are at all. It doesn't matter that you intellectually "know" that arbitrary rules and safety regulations will hold you back in a real fight if you're programming your body to follow them by training as if those rules exist, like training in sport oriented contexts. Higher functions of the brain go out the window during stress, you will only be able to act according to what you learn by experience, practicing and training. Your intuition.

If you have any moral or emotional quandaries about hurting people then this will also hold you back if you have to neutralize a threat, as the emotional lower levels of the brain override the logical higher levels, especially when threatened.

Training for sport in a controlled environment has carryover but the ideal is really to simulate as much as possible the conditions of the environment you're likely to be in. In the case of self defense that'd be sudden violence, unpredictability, asymmetricity, etc, and intuitively understanding the reality that someone could try to victimize you and you may have to seriously hurt them to stop it. Rote memorization of specific actions could also become a handicap because your body won't know how to adapt to fluid or unknown conditions. That being said, I would hold off on any martial arts that are far more "art" than they are "martial".

Again, it comes back to intuition because martial arts, like the rest of the fitness world, is full of bro science, anecdotes, flashy tricks, hollywood bullshit and marketing wank. My advice is to look at what people in police, prison and infantry do and go from there. If what they did didn't work, it would literally die with them.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

Yeah, that's right Curio, I agree that muscle memory and intuition are very important. I also think that a martial art have to be about combat. But soldiers, cops rarely have to fight with their fists, they have weapons, police batons for that. And soldiers, police officers also train boxing or some combat martial art because they know that they have to be well prepared. Most soldiers I know and others I heard about practice combat sports and combat oriented martial arts. Where I come from detectives and cops are the teachers usually in karate dojos, and kick-boxing clubs mostly.
Yeah you are indeed right, I also go to a place where we are constantly sparring with each other and not learning some katas or something like that. Also I think it's important to learn more fighting styles. But the warriors of ancient Greece an Rome also trained boxing and wrestling and they didn't held back, and of course they didn't had much rules either and look how tough they were.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

123KO I see your point but if you push only the eybrows and you don't kick with full strength to the place right there then you do have rules. Interesting story when I was very young and I was boxing the coach told the others that punch the other in the balls and step on their shoes and knock out them that way when the referee isn't watching. What the referee is not seeing is not a foul. :twisted: There are a lots of fighters who fight dirty even in the ring. So mostly I think rules are only guidelines. But based on what you said you learn some useful techniques, well good luck to your training.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

Aquarious of course it's dishonorable. And I'm not the one who did that either, but my team members. Of course in a fight(wherever it is) honour is not the one that matters the most but victory. I would care about winning not honour. We are not living in some fairy tale world Aquarius if you didn't noticed already. But I said this because some guys do this even in tournaments, that's why I think people should be more flexible when they talk about rules. You have these guys who talk about where honor is to the referee when there is an unnoticed foul and they get knocked the fuck out. You have to prepare for dirty fighters also in the ring, and during training. Don't trust in that that they will keep the rules if they have the chance to do otherwise. And many mma, boxing matches are dirty. And don't fool yourself that fighters there fight for honour but money. And in the end all that matters is who is the winner. Anyway we are a bit off-track because the topic is about self-defence on the street. Well I brought this up because even in tournaments, matches, even during sparring, traaining many people don't keep the rules so people shouldn't bring this up for a valid reason to not do some combat sport or martial art. Probably they say these things about rules because they don not have much experience about combat sports in general.
StyleCoin I hope we helped a bit. Good luck to your self-defence learning.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

I heard that Combat Sambo is also good. Russian soldiers learn that too.

 

[Aquarius]

Aquarious of course it's dishonorable. And I'm not the one who did that either, but my team members. Of course in a fight(wherever it is) honour is not the one that matters the most but victory. I would care about winning not honour. We are not living in some fairy tale world Aquarius if you didn't noticed already. But I said this because some guys do this even in tournaments, that's why I think people should be more flexible when they talk about rules. You have these guys who talk about where honor is to the referee when there is an unnoticed foul and they get knocked the fuck out. You have to prepare for dirty fighters also in the ring, and during training. Don't trust in that that they will keep the rules if they have the chance to do otherwise. And many mma, boxing matches are dirty. And don't fool yourself that fighters there fight for honour but money. And in the end all that matters is who is the winner. Anyway we are a bit off-track because the topic is about self-defence on the street. Well I brought this up because even in tournaments, matches, even during sparring, traaining many people don't keep the rules so people shouldn't bring this up for a valid reason to not do some combat sport or martial art. Probably they say these things about rules because they don not have much experience about combat sports in general.
StyleCoin I hope we helped a bit. Good luck to your self-defence learning.

Never spoke about a real fight, in a real fight you do whatever you have to do to win.
Even if in tournaments people act dishonorable that doesen't mean we have to either, maybe you have no pride in yourself, I certainly do and will not act dishnoroable just because some inferior pathetic humans do that too, if you feel like you have to then you most likely are an inferior one too.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

So you are feeling pride and power when you are insulting others and starting fights for no reason.... sure boss. But I won't lower myself down to your level , because I don't need to insult others for feeling good, and feeling pride. So instead answering to your provocations I will give you and advice, maybe you need one or two lessons in ethics how to talk to someone and get real man, hypocrites are not filled with pride but delusions.

 

[Aquarius]

So you are feeling pride and power when you are insulting others and starting fights for no reason.... sure boss. But I won't lower myself down to your level , because I don't need to insult others for feeling good, and feeling pride. So instead answering to your provocations I will give you and advice, maybe you need one or two lessons in ethics how to talk to someone and get real man, hypocrites are not filled with pride but delusions.

I am not starting fights nor insulting anybody, I just stated the truth. If you feel like I insulted you try and understand why you feel insulted.

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

LOL. You sound like a pscychologist on university, or some prophet: "I'm telling the truth and coincidentally the only truth is mine" :lol:

 

[se4ft6aw3b]

Same to you. Btw calling someone lowlife, inferior, honourless is an insult everywhere. I just not willing to turn my other face, but I'm able to keep things civilized, in my opinion insulting someone based on assumptions you just talked a little bit is the most lowlife behaviour. Although you said something comical: "Where the fuck is honor " It made me laugh at least. Although we disagree I'm able to wish you good luck in your endeavors because I understand that in the same army you don't attack your fellow soldiers. Maybe you should meditate on that.

 

[StyleCoin]

It seems there was a disagreement here. : /

 

[Aquarius]

Same to you. Btw calling someone lowlife, inferior, honourless is an insult everywhere. I just not willing to turn my other face, but I'm able to keep things civilized, in my opinion insulting someone based on assumptions you just talked a little bit is the most lowlife behaviour. Although you said something comical: "Where the fuck is honor " It made me laugh at least. Although we disagree I'm able to wish you good luck in your endeavors because I understand that in the same army you don't attack your fellow soldiers. Maybe you should meditate on that.

::/