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Replies to Fuchs in You Gain From This: The Gods Remain Powerful

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#26
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I understand this sermon is meant for the lazy ones. But I can´t believe what we did/do isn´t somehow helping the gods/ changing the world to the better in a significant way. Aside from "Lastly, when humans don't do this en masse, a civilization experiences a "below the baseline" removal of this information. This is a consequence of it's spiritual state. Darkness arrives" This statement also means someone has to do it, so all could have a chance to grow, when they stop being lazy. Lastly if someone reaches godhood they join the gods, help/work for them, millions off potentional new gods, can´t be useless/don´t make a difference.

"Human beings must become enlightened in order to find their way in the dark. Becoming enlightened means becoming smart travelers, who acquire knowledge of the way, an understanding of the local language and friendship with other travelers. We are all travelers in eternity." Thoth

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#1

For those who do, yes. This can also be measured practically.

For those who don't, they aren't doing much for this.

Yes, some people have to do it. It's not automatic, default, deserved or given, unless done.

People do it. Those who do, do it. Those who don't, don't do it.

Ourselves, future generations and past generations, born and unborn, are more than enough here to measure. The Gods are infinite in power, they do not need help. Our species and ourselves, do.

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#2

Your question makes it clear that you should read again this important sermon by the High Priest. You wrote:

what we did/do isn´t somehow helping the gods/ changing the world to the better in a significant way

You put a slash between these two options, but they are totally two different things. We don't help the Gods; they don't need any help from us. They are cosmological beings, eternal forces of nature, and have the power to shape reality as they want. What we do is ONLY FOR US. Everything we do is for us and for the world. The Gods only help us. When we pray to them, we do it to seek help for ourselves. When we do magical workings, we do for helping ourselves.

Can gods create other Gods? Yes, maybe no; who knows. Does it concern us for our lives? No. One can rant all day about why the Gods don't make us immortal now, and they would just throw away precious time that could have been dedicated to elevating oneself.

Lord Zeus alone can do everything. He doesn't need "millions of potential new gods".

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#3

Your question makes it clear that you should read again this important sermon by the High Priest. You wrote:

what we did/do isn´t somehow helping the gods/ changing the world to the better in a significant way

You put a slash between these two options, but they are totally two different things. We don't help the Gods; they don't need any help from us. They are cosmological beings, eternal forces of nature, and have the power to shape reality as they want. What we do is ONLY FOR US. Everything we do is for us and for the world. The Gods only help us. When we pray to them, we do it to seek help for ourselves. When we do magical workings, we do for helping ourselves.

My first sentence was censored, it would make sense then. I/We were told the gods couldn´t have done anything about the past, downfall etc. burned temples, "izfet", now it seems they choose to not help. I have a hard time believing this.

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#4

I/We were told the gods couldn´t have done anything about the past, downfall etc. burned temples, "izfet", now it seems they choose to not help. I have a hard time believing this.

Hello Brother, I'm gonna say one sentence and I want you to think about it long and hard:
The Gods CANNOT save us from ourselves.

What I mean is, our choices (as humanity) are our choices. The Gods will not brainwash anyone into doing the right thing. It is not Them who are being tested to ascend, it is us. They help anyone who is just in their heart and comes to Them, otherwise we wouldn't be here. It is the Human who must go to the Divine, the flow is upward, not downward. They are not overbearing parents who say "aww it's ok" when their kids commit mistakes. Because we're not kids, we're Their children sure, but most of us are still adults and expected to be mature about things. If someone is an andrapod, it's on them.

The Gods CANNOT save us from ourselves, because what would be the point then?
How can we grow up into an enlightened Humanity if we're not allowed to grow and are instead just sheltered from reality and consequences and how the world operates? Have you seen adults who have been spoiled by their parents their whole life, how utterly useless they end up being at 30+? It's the same principle, it's a law of Nature.

It'd be like asking "why do the Gods allow kids to get cancer", only a fundamental misunderstanding/ignorance of how the Gods work would lead someone to ask this kind of questions. The Universe works like this. The Universe can be cruel and brutal. But it is what it is. Adversities exist so they can be conquered and the conquerors will ascend proportionately to the adversities they have conquered. And also, joy wouldn't be able to exist without despair. And when such terrible things happen, the Gods are always fair in their judgements and will keep track of what is actually someone's fault and what was out of their control.

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#5

For those who do, yes. This can also be measured practically.

For those who don't, they aren't doing much for this.

Yes, some people have to do it. It's not automatic, default, deserved or given, unless done.

We should not declare the gods omnipotent otherwise we ran in the same trap as christianity:

"The Epicurean Paradox:

The Argument, Stated Honestly

The paradox, in the form that has come down to us, is a four-horned dilemma. If God wishes to prevent evil but cannot, He is not omnipotent. If He can prevent evil but does not wish to, He is malevolent. If He neither can nor wishes to, He is both impotent and malevolent, and therefore not God. If He both can and wishes to, then whence evil, and why does He not remove it?"

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#6

I/We were told the gods couldn´t have done anything about the past, downfall etc. burned temples, "izfet", now it seems they choose to not help. I have a hard time believing this.

Hello Brother, I'm gonna say one sentence and I want you to think about it long and hard:
The Gods CANNOT save us from ourselves.

We have literaly a god ritual in which it says a god (Dagan) should not mourn that his people were killed, if he would have been infinite in power I can´t believe he would have not saved his devout people.

"Dagon, Great God, once ruling the Philistines,
Your people have perished from the genocide of the Yehuborim against them,
Now we bring you into a New and Beautiful Home,
We are your People; we are your Fellowship.
The mouths of the Yehuborim have uttered of you that your temple fell, that your image was broken. But temples can be rebuilt, and you were never the stone. You are the sea that no hand can shatter."

"Do not mourn, Great God, for you are an immortal.
The memory of your People will live on through the aeons, and so will you!
Bless us to carry you forth into the minds and souls of mankind!
For what is drowned can rise again, and what is forgotten can be spoken anew."

There is also the The Epicurean Paradox which normaly only applys to christianity because they claimed their god has omnipotence:

"The Argument, Stated Honestly

The paradox, in the form that has come down to us, is a four-horned dilemma. If God wishes to prevent evil but cannot, He is not omnipotent. If He can prevent evil but does not wish to, He is malevolent. If He neither can nor wishes to, He is both impotent and malevolent, and therefore not God. If He both can and wishes to, then whence evil, and why does He not remove it?"

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#7

The answer is in the link you posted yourself, what is the matter then?

Evil, disorder, and resistance are structural features of reality itself, present before the Gods and independent of divine will.

Izfet, the principle of cosmic disorder, is woven into creation deliberately, so that beings may evolve through the work of overcoming it, and Zeus is the supreme teacher of that overcoming.

↑ This is exactly what I've said earlier by the way.

Gods hold ALL the power in the Universe, but certain things are impossible to do due to how the UNIVERSE ITSELF works, and Chaos, "Evil" is irrevocably part of it. Order is created from Chaos, it's the constant effort of Ma'at.

If by "omnipotent" you mean "able to do literally everything imaginable" then no, no one is omnipotent. I'd say They are "omni"-potent in the sense They have ALL the powers that exist, but certain powers just "do not exist", like the power to snap your fingers and make "evil" disappear. Such power cannot exist.

It's not a perfect metaphor but imagine bending an unbreakable elastic object, and imagine keeping it fixed in place. The object will forever push back. Or imagine trying to hold water in your hands. It will always try to escape. Imagine any kind of disorder, it requires constant effort to keep order.

This phenomenon is Izfet, entropy, and it is what breeds everything we call "evil".

You cannot remove it from the Universe, it's impossible.

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