Why can't i say this here

[SparkingPowerUP]

Why was my post rejected because i said meditation, magic and spiritual advancement can heal any illnesses?
Rejected because: You can't say meditation can heal all illness.

 

[Priest - Alexandros Iowno]

Because it cannot "heal all illness" blanket statement and members need to not disregard medical science and professional help from decontextualized anonymous advice/claims people make on this forum.

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Because it cannot "heal all illness" blanket statement and members need to not disregard medical science and professional help from decontextualized anonymous advice/claims people make on this forum.

So we can't heal ourselves through meditation or magic so whats use. Practicing it

 

[SparkingPowerUP]

I was refering to meditation, magic and spiritual advancement all together, meditation alone of course doesn't heal everything.

 

[Nikólaos666]

So we can't heal ourselves through meditation or magic so whats use. Practicing it

That is not what Priest said. He said to not proclaim meditation can save you from any illness since it isnt right.

If you get an infection with high fever, will you start meditating or try see a doctor and get some medicine?

 

[SparkingPowerUP]

That is not what Priest said. He said to not proclaim meditation can save you from any illness since it isnt right.

If you get an infection with high fever, will you start meditating or try see a doctor and get some medicine?

Well except viruses and infections

 

[Mantarcık]

So we can't heal ourselves through meditation or magic so whats use. Practicing it

No, you can heal yourself through magic. However, for effective healing, your spirit must have enough strength. This is achieved through regular power meditation. Even so, magic cannot replace modern medicine. Magic only complements medicine. For the best results, it is better to use both together.

 

[nema]

I think some unexperienced members could take it the wrong way and ignore an illness, thinking they can heal It by themself when they still can't.

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Was it not always promoted by jos that we can heal ourselves more specifically Hps Pythia has taught us this do we. Just abandon all Hps teaching automatically from the name. Change or do we cherry pick which suit at which era
She had said with yoga for example it can help heal when done consistently
And its nothing new members this or that
Purely did we not say this was possible after enough power knowledge and. Consistency is given
Also recently being said we can't see the Gods
so now What is actually possible ?
Or must we keep putting limitations on ourselves
to what end ?
Yes not everyone is Hps Pythia or Hp
And not everyone shall have those experiences and Knowledge
But to blatantly just we cannot advance anymore is something completely opposite of what Hps Pythia thaught
She still stated in which was back jos,SS / Zevism does not put limitations

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Was it not always promoted by jos that we can heal ourselves more specifically Hps Pythia has taught us this do we. Just abandon all Hps teaching automatically from the name. Change or do we cherry pick which suit at which era
She had said with yoga for example it can help heal when done consistently
And its nothing new members this or that
Purely did we not say this was possible after enough power knowledge and. Consistency is given
Also recently being said we can't see the Gods
so now What is actually possible ?
Or must we keep putting limitations on ourselves
to what end ?
Yes not everyone is Hps Pythia or Hp
And not everyone shall have those experiences and Knowledge
But to blatantly just we cannot advance anymore is something completely opposite of what Hps Pythia thaught
She still stated in which was back jos,SS / Zevism does not put limitations

I think a whole lot of people are actually forgetting that were a community that practices magick and at the same time we say we're the most. Powerful magick society fighting for Zeus Satanas

 

[Acolyte Of Pan 666]

The last thing TOZ needs is seriously ill and not spiritually powerful person thinking they can heal themselves through meditation and ignore medicine, them dying from ignoring modern medicine and then their loves ones blame TOZ and try to sue it.

We’re not christards who think our religion can protect us from reality.

Not sure if it’s there already but TOZ needs to make a legal disclaimer that explicitly says TOZ fully recommends and supports medicine, does NOT present spiritual practices as a substitute for modern medicine, and is not liable for any person who thought otherwise as TOZ clearly stated that is not the case.

 

[Acolyte Of Pan 666]

The last thing TOZ needs is seriously ill and not spiritually powerful person thinking they can heal themselves through meditation and ignore medicine, them dying from ignoring modern medicine and then their loves ones blame TOZ and try to sue it.

We’re not christards who think our religion can protect us from reality.

Not sure if it’s there already but TOZ needs to make a legal disclaimer that explicitly says TOZ fully recommends and supports medicine, does NOT present spiritual practices as a substitute for modern medicine, and is not liable for any person who thought otherwise as TOZ clearly stated that is not the case.

There is of course more nuance to this than spiritual practices being able or not able to cure illnesses. However most humans don’t fully comprehend nuance in things and in an event like a death, emotions fly high and nuance goes to die.

Disclaimers and documents should be made in advance as you often can’t protect stupid, but we can protect TOZ from stupid.

 

[Nikólaos666]

Was it not always promoted by jos that we can heal ourselves more specifically Hps Pythia has taught us this do we. Just abandon all Hps teaching automatically from the name. Change or do we cherry pick which suit at which era
She had said with yoga for example it can help heal when done consistently
And its nothing new members this or that
Purely did we not say this was possible after enough power knowledge and. Consistency is given
Also recently being said we can't see the Gods
so now What is actually possible ?
Or must we keep putting limitations on ourselves
to what end ?
Yes not everyone is Hps Pythia or Hp
And not everyone shall have those experiences and Knowledge
But to blatantly just we cannot advance anymore is something completely opposite of what Hps Pythia thaught
She still stated in which was back jos,SS / Zevism does not put limitations

No one promote that meditation and spiritual advancement should eclipse modern medicine. You cannot heal from many illness by your own power.

Please do not put words into what Lady Pythia have said.

 

[Aquarius]

If you have a dental infection will you do meditation or yoga and hope for the best - or go to a dentist and actually avoid the infection killing you?

Hopefully you will choose the latter.

And that's why we can't allow strange beliefs to be placed in the mind of non-experienced Zevists, so that they don't hurt themselves.

 

[High Priestess Lydia Coventina]

Was it not always promoted by jos that we can heal ourselves more specifically Hps Pythia has taught us this do we.

Lady Pythia wrote about using energy to help stabilize her sick cat, and still had to bring the cat to the vet. She also wrote numerous times about how antibiotics save lives.

Medicine and proper medical practices save lives. With a lot of spiritual advancement we can help with healing, but the required amount of advancement and energy needed is far beyond the practical scope of the vast majority of people. Nobody should delay medical intervention thinking they can meditate the illness away.

The ancients had medicine and surgery, even with their knowledge of spiritual practices.

 

[Marcusfortis]

A very good example of what Priest Alexandros was explaining is what happened to Steve Jobs; in lieu of surgery and chemotherapy when diagnosed with cancer, he tried fruit juices, herbal medicine, acupuncture and other alternative treatments he found on the internet. Friends and family tried to warn him that this was "crazy" and he died of cancer.

 

[616Taysha]

Not sure if it’s there already but TOZ needs to make a legal disclaimer that explicitly says TOZ fully recommends and supports medicine, does NOT present spiritual practices as a substitute for modern medicine, and is not liable for any person who thought otherwise as TOZ clearly stated that is not the case.

Good point!

@High Priestess Lydia Coventina could we have something like that on ToZ main page?

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

No one promote that meditation and spiritual advancement should eclipse modern medicine. You cannot heal from many illness by your own power.

Please do not put words into what Lady Pythia have said.

Brother N M
Am not putting words in Hps Pythia mouth
Maybe am explaining wrong or. You're understanding what am saying wrong
Or maybe both
Am starting to doubt if you had ever listened to her audios or read through her sermons

 

[Meow!]

Lady Pythia has always supported using science- if some of you would read her original articles you would know this- She built the JOS to go hand in hand with science to help science figure the fullness of the truth not ignore it and that includes using modern meds when you need to.
NONE of the HP or any of the Clergy have gone against this firm foundation block cause they know why it is there and important to be here. I haven't found any spot on the TOZ that would make me question this. Even in the explanation articles about why we blend things from different spots doesn't ignore science.
If an article is needed to clarify this point fine but please whatever you do don't shove words into any of the clergys mouths!

Hail our wonderous cosmic Father Zeus

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Mod please help me understand
So we cannot reach Godhead and heal ourselves
Is Godhead not our highest goal
Is this the same Mod as last time who kept rejecting my post and still said goodnight
Like I taught Zeus Satanas wants us to reach Godhead

 

[hailourtruegod]

Brother N M
Am not putting words in Hps Pythia mouth
Maybe am explaining wrong or. You're understanding what am saying wrong
Or maybe both
Am starting to doubt if you had ever listened to her audios or read through her sermons

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια: Double Ignorance of Proclus - When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια Double Ignorance author: High Priest Zevios Metathronos When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant. The Gateway to Zevism: Proclus on the First Prison of the Soul, the Andrapod and the Seeker, and the Sting That Sets Free. Most people who hear about Zevism, theurgy...

ancient-forums.com

 

[Hidden Warrior [SG]]

Mod please help me understand
So we cannot reach Godhead and heal ourselves
Is Godhead not our highest goal
Is this the same Mod as last time who kept rejecting my post and still said goodnight
Like I taught Zeus Satanas wants us to reach Godhead

Godhead is the goal. Gods can do and are able to do what they want. In the meantime, you heal yourself using the knowledge of science and medicine, which were given to us from the Gods themselves.

 

[ARIES SPIRITUAL LIGHTOFLUCIFER666]

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια: Double Ignorance of Proclus - When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant

Διπλῆ Ἄγνοια Double Ignorance author: High Priest Zevios Metathronos When One Is Ignorant of the Fact That One Is Ignorant. The Gateway to Zevism: Proclus on the First Prison of the Soul, the Andrapod and the Seeker, and the Sting That Sets Free. Most people who hear about Zevism, theurgy...

ancient-forums.com

Am nt being ignorant stating my views on the situation
Are you condemning freedom of speech and freedom of thought
We not all going to see something the same way

 

[Asra]

Am nt being ignorant stating my views on the situation
Are you condemning freedom of speech and freedom of thought
We not all going to see something the same way

There's no freedom of speech to gain for your comment. It falls under unqualified medical advice and it can turn illegal depending on consequences. Because it's too broad, it can have 2 effects:
1. at least 1 person is probable to interpret it as an encouragement to ignore modern medicine, which, at worst, can cause their death.
2. if that happens, the Temple will be susceptible to lawsuits and at worst shut-down attempts from authorities
You can't go around saying this, just like you can't post threats. If you add all the real and necessary "if"s and "but"s to make your statement correct, then you can post it no problem.

 

[hailourtruegod]

Am nt being ignorant stating my views on the situation
Are you condemning freedom of speech and freedom of thought
We not all going to see something the same way

No need to keep going in extremes. Fellow Asra made the point clear. I just want you to be better at consulting your own self before posting these claims and assertions as said above.

All is well.

 

[Khem Nefermed]

The problem here is the word "can".

"Can" spiritual advancement make someone able to heal all illnesses? Yes, of course. Spiritual advancement can even make someone physically immortal, if high enough.

"Can" the person reading what you would've said do this? No. Not even "most likely", just no. The number of people that can do real spiritual healing here is quite low, as this takes a lot of power and experience. And even then, from "can do spiritual healing" to "can heal any illness", is yet another long road still.

This kind of statement doesn't do much good, and does a lot of bad. Of course spiritual advancement will bring one blessings that one could only think of as miracle.
But when we speak, we need to understand that there is no such thing as "naked fact". The words we speak have consequences.

Someone here could be delusional about their level of spiritual advancement. Then, they read such a statement, and they have this or that chronic illness that requires medicine, or this or that acute problem that requires treatment, and they instead choose to trust spiritual powers that they don't actually have. Bad result.

Spiritual healing is important to not forget. Yes, if you have a solid level of experience with meditation practice, you should start doing workings to improve your health. Yes, if you have the common cold and a couple GOOD years of meditation behind you, do try to send healing energy and heal the cold faster.

But let's not go into New Age "name it and claim it" nonsense.
If you have diabetes, you do not need spiritual healing, you need insulin. You need insulin NOW, which will ALLOW you to then spend more time advancing to eventually, hopefully, heal this diabetes (yes, never rule things like that out as a possibility, as long as you are still taking your medicine)
If you have a bacterial infection that requires antibiotics, you are (and this is being generous) perhaps 10 years away from having the power to combat bacteria "spiritually". And yet, if you don't go to a doctor and take antibiotics, you have a week-long clock ticking to your DEATH.

These things are serious. As HPS Lydia Coventina stated above, HPS Pythia has always been adamant about the fact that modern medicine (with its faults, yes) is a great advancement for humanity that must be taken advantage of, as it saves lives that would've otherwise been lost.