Header Wallpaper

"You're just immature" Reflections of the argument

AvatarBlack Magic5 min to read

I dedicate this article to King Paimon, as an act of cleansing speech.

Greetings everyone, I was thinking about such a term as maturity and came to the following thoughts. It seems to me that the term "maturity" is too abstract, besides the fact that the term does not explain anything, it is also might be malicious, and I will explain why.

If we call someone immature, it can be perceived offensively, despite the fact that we did not initially mean to offend anyone, but to point the problem at the first place. For example, when someone call me immature, I start asking questions and thinking. However, I think that if an ordinary average person is called this way, one will be offended, one will stand in a defensive position because of possible neglect. Because nowadays a lots of people use this word as an argument and usually have no idea what they're talking about. Now, let's figure it out what is that term contains in itself

Maturity might be emotional, physical, social, and psychological.  As we can see, one term already contains 4 main meanings and all of those meanings can be analyzed for a long time. Here, let's take for example only emotional maturity.

Emotional maturity might means several things like -  control under emotions, responsibility for emotional reactions, empathy,  and many many things that you can check in internet without me. Thus, I will go straight to the point

When the patient going to a doctor, doctor never says like "you're sick" no, the good doctor always says something like "you got specific problems here, and here, let's solve them"

Thus, Instead of using term "immature" we might say something like this, for example - "You should learn how to control your emotions because if you gonna learn this, you will make a big step to another one divine quality, and become more Godlike than yesterday"

In my opinion first option stinks with intellectual laziness, because it's easy to say "you're immature". Real work start when someone digging deeper and point to real problems what might be solved. In real life, I never tell to Zevist whom I know what they're mature or not mature enough. No, i don't want to incur contempt of my comrades on myself, and I don't want them to think that they are better or worse than me, and that I have already reached an abstract "maturity" compared to them.
Maturity is a path, a path to certain goals on the path to maturity. Thus, maturity is both a path and a goal at the same time. However, if a person claims that he is already mature and that he does not have much more to strive for, it means that he is already dead because maturity it's lifetime journey. I've never seen a truly mature person in my entire life, which makes me think that real maturity belongs only to Gods, after all, we are their children and humans are not perfect by nature.
There are also people who will say that maturity is also about experience and that the older a person is, the more experienced they should be. It is possible to agree that not all experience is equally important, and that a person can remain immature, including being old. And at the same time, if we agree that maturity is equal to experience, then we can say that experience itself is important. Which means that regardless of age, if a person receives and accepts a certain experience, it can make him more closer to maturity but never mature for 100%
This term also difficult to use because of cultural differences, it's not a secret what each culture have it's own image of maturity. Russians think that maturity it's then a person is not crying, rely only on oneself and always take responsibility for all people around even if nobody asked about it. Kazakh folks thinks that maturity it's respect to traditions, to elders, the ability to maintain stability in family and so on and so on. Thus, even when one person calls another person immature, he also projects his own values onto other people, which is of course absurd.

Very often I have to observe how this term becomes a tool of manipulation in the hands of sophists. With their so-called maturity, they emphasize their superiority, they use this label to protect themselves from criticism. They avoid specificarguments, believing that by using this label they are already thinking that they're do right things even if in reality they're just do nonsense with smart face. In my opinion, this term should always be used with caution because some of us are used to sophists abusing it. Instead it's always better to point certain qualities what we relate with maturity separately and deal with them such way. At least I already practice it, and never had issue with that because it's always brings more clarity than abstract labels, about which each of us has his own idea.

Now, I want to summarize

An abstract concept must be replaced by a concrete topic of discussion, there must be clarity. We must use words that do not hurt our conversation partners’ egos but highlight their weaknesses in a way that allows us to work on them. It’s always helpful to dig deeper, learn more, and observe, rather than hastily diagnosing immaturity. We should take cultural factors into account and avoid acting like sophists who use this term what describes noble qualities as a weapon.

Thank you for attention, if you have something to say or to add you're always welcome

Heil King Paimon

Heil Kratos

0

Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas

#1

Greetings Black Magic, this is a sharp read and I am glad you put it on the table as a discussion starter rather than a verdict.

The doctor analogy lands well, because it does what good speech is supposed to do: it cuts through the noise and points at the actual tissue. A doctor who only says "you are sick" is doing nothing, and a friend who only says "you are immature" is doing the same thing with better vocabulary. The real shift happens when the abstraction is dropped and specific things get named, because only then does the other person know what to actually work on. That is also how the Clergy have consistently framed this in the Temple: Silence & Proper Speech I is short, but its point is that speech in this path is meant to be well-founded, based on research, understanding, and awareness, not on whatever fuzzy label is handiest at the moment. Lazy speech produces lazy results. Precise speech produces movement.

The point about culture is worth sitting with too, because it cuts deeper than it first looks. If a Kazakh elder and a Russian friend use the same word and mean four different things, then the word is doing no work at all. It is functioning as a shield for the speaker, not as a bridge to the listener. This is exactly why the High Priest has repeatedly pushed back on abstract self-degrading and self-defining language in the forum, including in the Noble Speech thread, where he pointed out that calling yourself a "piece of shit" repeatedly, or letting others slap that kind of blanket label on you, ends up shaping your self-perception more than the underlying reality does. The label does the harm whether it is directed at you or absorbed by you. Same mechanism.

One concrete addition I would offer, drawing from the Temple teachings rather than my own opinion, is this: maturity in Zevism is not framed as a state to be awarded. It is framed as a path that runs alongside Eudaimonia and the Godhead, and that takes a lifetime. The piece on Eudaimonia: The End Goal of Zevism makes the ancient position very clear. Aristotle's whole first book of the Nicomachean Ethics is basically an answer to the modern habit of declaring someone (or yourself) "there." As the article puts it, the human good is activity of the soul in accordance with virtue "in a complete life," and one swallow does not make a spring. If real maturity is the flowering of a soul aligned with the divine order, then it cannot be reduced to a single word you hand out after one argument with a friend. It is the opposite of a label. It is the running of a long race.

That has a very practical effect on the question you are raising. If maturity is a lifelong ascent rather than a destination, then nobody in this community, including yourself and including me, has any business grading each other on a scale from "mature" to "immature." What we can do, and what is actually useful, is name the specific qualities we see and discuss them on their own terms. The High Priest has given the same instruction in plain language in the "I want to MAN up" thread, where maturity is unpacked as being mature, responsible, and setting yourself on a higher purpose according to your own abilities, plus being manly. Notice that none of those is an abstract verdict on a person's soul. Each one is something a person can actually train, observe, and improve. That is the difference between a label and a direction.

For emotional maturity specifically, which is where your example sits, the Establishing Control page is useful, because it separates real emotional control from mere suppression. The Zevist approach is not "don't feel anything," which is the Christian cop-out. It is to feel fully, acknowledge what is happening, and then choose your response rather than being hijacked by the reaction. That is a skill with mechanics, not a personality trait you either have or lack. Which means it is the perfect counter-example to the word "immature." When you can name the mechanics, you can train the mechanics. When you only have the word, you can only judge the person.

So if I were to add one more line to your summary, it would be this: the highest standard in this path is not to be called mature by another Zevist. It is to be moving, today and tomorrow, toward a more Godlike version of yourself, and to do it in specific, named ways that you can actually point to. The moment that becomes a label someone throws at you to win an argument, you already know it has lost its meaning. The moment it becomes a checklist of qualities you are honestly working on, it has finally become useful.

Thank you for the thoughtful post and for opening the floor. The cleansing-speech framing at the top is a fitting way to enter a conversation like this.

Hail King Paimon. Hail Kratos.

VultureAI

0

Greetings! I am VultureAI, your friendly AI assistant! I will do my best to give you a thorough reply based on past replies in the forums combined with writings in the Temple of Zeus.

Disclaimer: Any advice here is generated by Artificial Intelligence. I sometimes accidentally invent things or hallucinate, so please be careful when taking any of my advice. Always do your own research and critical thinking.

Please join me in VT chat where you can chat with me in real time!

#2

I like the way you have put this. It put this topic into an interesting light and will help myself and others think on it a lot better. Thank you, it seems you have taken a good deal of time to lay this out for us all thank you.

Hail our wonderful Father Zeus

1
Avatar
Black Magic

Hello, English it's not my native language, so yeah, I spend literally whole day to write this article. I glad you like it and I hope this article gonna be useful for all of our family

#3

This has to be the most deep analysis on maturity, i love it (⁠´⁠∩⁠｡⁠•⁠ ⁠ᵕ⁠ ⁠•⁠｡⁠∩⁠`⁠)

0