I want to see proof before I go further with any religion, if that makes sense. I am new to this, so please be patient.
Discussion
616Taysha wrote:View source Don't do anything then - what for?...Don't bother yourself with that and MAYBE you'll be fine. :)...There. This is the answer you want, you expect? Good.
What do you mean?
WoadWarrior wrote:View source For me the proof exists in the doing, I know its the opposite of what you wanted to hear but its true, at least for me.
Whenever I do a Ritual to our Gods and every time I do so I feel the energy of the God afterwards, not metaphorically or poetically but literally, the magickal workings provided have literally cured me of issues the doctors said there is no cure for, yet again these were literal diagnosed physical ailments from birth that are now gone.
Our site also provides a wealth of evidence, but PROOF requires you to take the leap of faith I am afraid, I would suggest reading Plato's allegory of the cave, it is unbeknownst to most a spiritual metaphor, no matter how hard you try, no matter how keenly you search will simply not see the light of truth until you step out of the cave.
I could talk about how ever single pantheon on Earth has a Sky Father, a male God of the Sun who represents knowledge and learning, a Female God who is associated with Venus, I could explain the chances of this being a coincidence are literally 0, how cultures and peoples all came to the same conclusions about the nature of divinity when separated by race, language and of course vast at the time impassable distances.
I could talk of how each belief system fundamentally follows the same concept of "Titans" being "Slain" by a "Sky Father" to create "Order" out of "Chaos".
But that's EVIDENCE and PROOF can only be found outside the cave.
If you have more questions feel free to ask.
I guess I'm not actually asking for 100% proof, unless that is possible, more so just sufficient reason to believe this instead of anything else.
Couldn't it be explained by human psychology at the time, though, instead of universal Gods?
Can you elaborate on the Titan slaying thing?
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WoadWarrior wrote:View source I should also note on top of what I said before, you are not required to fully "believe" before engaging with our meditations or even before dedicating, I was an athiest before joining the path, you can in fact take it one step at a time, Zevism is not christianity, we do not demand blind faith.
That's good to know!
616Taysha wrote:View source @28teow20 okay, the above quote may be triggering for people due to the word 'faith' being abused by major, mainstearm 'religions'. If this is your case, I'll then recommend to you this - Rene Descartes' quote "I doubt therefore I am" is the best way to go about it.
Don't 'believe' if you associate 'believing' with 'blindly following some vague doctrins'.
Refuse to accept anything at face value BUT (and this is vital) investigate. Oh, and don't think you'll spend just a couple of moments researching - it will take you MUCH time.
Feel free to ask questions, and know that skepticism is okay, as long as you do not confuse it with cynicism.
Sate your curiosity - go!
Yeah, I don't like it when I'm told to "have faith" because of the connotation it has.
Are there any external websites I should visit to learn more, or just the ToZ sites?
How would you recommend dispelling fear of going to Hell? I was raised Christian (Evangelical).
28teow20 wrote:View source What do you mean?
Oh, pay me no mind in this post. I actually anticipated some common mentality that new people may have. Over the years there have been people DEMANDING we give them ONE, INCONTROVERTIBLE piece of evidence. No such thing as 'one, certain' piece of evidence.
Also, to answer your question as to "just one" website. 1st read it all - and I mean ALL of ToZ. Then talk about "other websites". Which you will encounter nonetheless. But unless and until you do so... it's up to you.
28teow20 wrote:View source I guess I'm not actually asking for 100% proof, unless that is possible, more so just sufficient reason to believe this instead of anything else.
Couldn't it be explained by human psychology at the time, though, instead of universal Gods?
Can you elaborate on the Titan slaying thing?
But what does it say of human psychology if literally every group of humans originally all saw the same divine attributes in the exact same way? If you do not accept atheism and instead seek a more spiritual truth would it not stand to reason that a divine force would place the notion of themselves within their children?, what Darwinian explanation exists for this phenomenon? And indeed the same Darwinian pressures could not have affected all people across the globe as they all would face differing conditions, there must be an external variable.
As for the titan slaying: Zeus's slaying of the "Titans" such as Kronus are a metaphor for His domination and control over natural forces and concepts for instance Kronus is of course time itself, Kronus "eats" his children as time also eats its children, we are all children of time but likewise time seeks to devour us, and Zeus by castrating Kronus made Kronus powerless against Him, meaning Zeus is beyond the touch of time itself.
All ancient religions explained fundamental laws and concepts through these "titanic" allegories, likewise the Norse believed Odin slew Ymir the Giant (Norse version of titan) and from the corpse of Ymir forged reality, this represents the mastering and conquering of chaos and the creation of order, again and again you will see these "Titans" be them "Giants" "Monsters" or any other name, they yet again are the same story of Zeus (Sky Father) subjugating them and using their power to create Humanity and the building blocks of existence we live within.
Once you study ancient religions in their original languages you will quickly realize all structured ancient religions are fundamentally the same, and the Temple of Zeus is their continuation into the modern world.
Active Translator28teow20 wrote:View source I want to see proof before I go further with any religion, if that makes sense. I am new to this, so please be patient.
I'll try to make this short and not overwhelming. From reading all the threads in believe I have an idea of what you are actually asking for.
I understand the " Christian norms" coming from a heavily faith practising family, and all the mental attachments that stick around because of that.
You just want affirmation on the truth not necessarily proof. The question is are you willing to pursue the truth. There's a PDF on the site along with the BlackBook that if you read you'll get the shared experience of everything who's read it also. " That feeling that what your reading is the truth" that's one experience many people who weren't connected by anything have shared about reading what's contained in those pages.
There's also a difference you'll feel and can see. Try to meditate on your own see how it goes and how far you get, then try doing some of the beginner meditates here or opening your third eye mediate. That will provide you with a personal experience as well that will be unlike anything you've known to be possible.
I'd suggest taking to the Gods themselves but you might not hear them depending on how spirituality open you are.
Lastly you'll see when you dedicate. We have all gotten a personal visitation or have seen SATAN/ZEUS, this isn't anything you can try to psychological insert in someone head, it's a completely different experience all together.
And as far as fear goes, here you learn to destroy any and all fear you have. We have clear, and obtainable goals. We dont just have " just believe" you build relationships with the Gods and your life around it. Also you can learn as much as you can before dedication so there's no real " you have to join " pressure.
There's no " if your not with us you'll suffer" we only offer the opportunity to better yourself, advance yourself at your own pace. Alot of people have joined and haven't made crazy progress only because they are taking things at their own pace and there's no punishment for that. There's actually true freedom here.
Unlike religion where you need to have faith. If you want proof, you can get it from the horses mind. As far as Coincidences go, you'll learn alot and see alot in your own experience and find information about it here after. So you would have experienced IT first and then found information about it, showing you that it's a commonality and not unknown, once of miracle experience and also you didn't have any knowledge of it beforehand so that removes any subconscious intervention.
So there's a logical approach to this as well, which allows you to ask your question. And again we promote people asking questions.