Dear Senior Guardian Hidden Warrior,
I enjoyed replying to you i am writing this after i finished, i do not recall what i said😂 i really cannot check again to refine i got tired, sorry for any inaccuracies in advance.
I see main idea we disagree on is this:
-Can Gods do something supernatural lightly: either object movement, music etc..
My opinion is yes that can happen lightly, not necessarily as something super serious with a chthonic aspect,
From what i understand you disagree and mean that Gods ONLY act efficiently, so they will never do something like the above lightly,
This i personally disagree with, we cannot i guess argue about this, i believe the best if a more advanced Zevist than both of us intervene, hopefully,
I had a similar discussion in Vultus with a Zevist, who was against notion that Gods can be biaised, because he views that as against nobility and that means someone getting more than he deserves so its not just,
So he saw biaised as something ´lowly’
I strongly disagree with that too,
I believe there is nothing that looks more Godly than biais, in the sense:
One can does an input of 1$ , deserving of course 1$ Gold from God Zeus perspective,
And Zeus can still decide to give him 2$ Gold even if the person deserves only 1$
I hope also a more advanced Zevist intervene in this but i will be honest,
If i am wrong in those 2 points, it will be devastating to me, it will shake my whole understanding of Gods, my understand of reality and my understanding of the universe,
However i am always open for learning.
So in summary the above is whats important, the below is not that important, i do not even recall what i wrote
Also, this is a discussion forum. What is the point of asking for people's opinions if, when the first person replies with a view you disagree with, you answer that "to be able to comment on an experience, whether it is legit or not, one should have the experience"? That simply dismisses my argument because I haven't personally experienced that specific event.
I did regret writing that since no one answered and you were the first to start i should have been grateful you interacted instead, however, i believe that by pushing ideas strongly against [ ideas ] that we get to the depth,
Zevism is constantly updates today it has been stated in Vultus that the notion of there is no mediator is not fully accurate, the Clergy themselves used to say that to be accurate, same with many notions, constant updates mean we just need to be comfortable with ideas clashing,
Only in enemy religion only the ´elite ´ are allowed to think for the masses, and this backlashed and many started rewriting their whole own religion from within the same religion, making their foundations become worthless,
i never personally learned from debates that stay at the surface, ironically, the best debates i have ever witnessed and learned from was those with people who get to the point of being direspectful to each other [ which is wrong ], since at that point everyone start giving his best,
While the debates that do not have this friction [ Academic Debates ], they are usually superficial and stay at the surface, And both parties start gatekeeping, and they never say something important its just suits a good coffee and larping,
So i was not dismissing i was just pushing respectfully so we get deeper,
No need to be disrespectful of course, but the friction is truly necessary,
You can check what philosophers faced.. that hints at the level of friction that was happening,
The first one who talked about reality of Gods, that i saw in my life, was the most disrespectful in debates one i have ever seen, yet he was explaining serious stuff,
The respectful ones, all i could found, only talked about mythology, and ´studies’ of things metaphorically,
The biggest gatekeepers in the entire worlds are the academics, i never recall learning something important from someone like that,
The High Priest is the first one i saw merging great academic aspect with real things, real and tangible
At the same time, we should be careful not to project our own expectations onto the Gods. If someone believes that Lord Apollo, Lord Orpheus, or another Higher Being will simply play music for them during meditation, I think it is worth reflecting on that
This i disagree with, apparently you do not call that the Gods being shy or whatever,
But idea is still the same, the Gods wont just come and do something similar,
This i strongly disagree with,
The Gods can do something just to make one laugh for example, whether this have some complicated reasons behind it i do not know, but judging only on whats apparent and without speculation, the Gods can do that,
Because your assumption ´the Gods are so great they wont do that ´
We can use same statement to justify that a Theophany cannot happen in meditation,
Why a God would appear?
If you accept appearance,
By consequence music should be accepted, same as a physical object movement, or anything else,
Is it rare ? Yes, does it happen yes.
But you cannot accept that ´THE HIGHEST RANKING GODS IN UNIVERSE ´, will get present in summoning, and then reject them playing music,
Why would Zeus himself be present after his summoning, i believe the idea of summoning people got so comfortable with it that it does not seem it is very supernatural anymore,
Literally if you accept that you can ´Summon’ [ The Highest Manifestation of the Cosmos ], why you find it hard to believe a God will do something that you label mundane
I don't think someone needs to personally experience every phenomenon in order to comment on it. Otherwise, none of us could reason about countless events we have never experienced ourselves. We can use logic and what we already know to evaluate different situations.
This is true and false, Depends on situation,
For example, an object movement this even the one having it can doubt even if seing with his own eyes, experiences of that caliber even by the one experiencing them can be dismissed, so for a person who did not have, it is not logical to expect something other than skepticism,
I also learnt, from experience, that when the mind reaches a level, you can argue against or defend anything,
I can literally push against anyone and it will be extreme hard to win the argument even if i am wrong,
The problem with that, is many get to that level where their mind becomes good enough to defend even falsehood,
When that happens, one should start doubting his own mind, and learn to add an aspect of [experience] to the equation,
Since reality is grounding and it shapes the thinking to not become only speculative and dlusional,
That being said, if one has the best thinking in the world, and never meditated, i wont trust his opinions about something deep in relation to Gods,
Because he can be so good that he promotes falsehood in a way no one can argue against,
This thing i noticed it existent in different extents,
For example one may break up with his girlfriend, and explain how that was due to evolutionary psychology and make a very strong case,
And still in reality be the one actually who caused the breakup,
You see this in people who read little psychology and start projecting that on everyone, everyone suddenly becomes ´narcissit’,
So one builds a fortress, and becomes untied to reality,
For that very reason, i personally , try to get as much things in real life as possible and also know what others experience,
So that i ground my thinking with the power of reality, otherwise i can build you castles with my mind, and you will be impressed, but how true is that,
I made this about myself since otherwise if i used you for examples it will sound hostile, so i made it about me
so it is entirely possible that an object was moved by another type of entity instead.
The point of Gods do not go around moving objects, is very unclear,
You mean they cannot just do something like that randomly?
I mean they can do it lightly,
In ToZ, there is a story of a magician that was trying to contact a Goddess, and was using disrespectful ways,
It is mentioned the Goddess visited him once and roared,
Why would a Goddess just appear and roar?
If this can happen then the object movement can also happen lightly not as something super secret that the Gods will do in some room underground with massive altars and serious missions in the presence of top 3 initiates only
you said:
[At the same time, we should be careful not to project our own expectations onto the Gods. If someone believes that Lord Apollo, Lord Orpheus, or another Higher Being will simply play music for them during meditation, I think it is worth reflecting on that]
If you are against projection, this includes projection of what they cannot do,
When you say Gods do not do that, this is of itself a projection,
To say what Gods do or do not, you are never ´safe ´, in both cases it is a projection, which can be true or false,
Did the Gods tell you they cannot do that ? This is why i insist on experience, imagine if you had an answer from Gods and a logical reason behind it, your point will be backed by both your intellectual capacities, and the Gods, [ external validation ], without experience, at best you have 1 side of the story, even if you get it right, it is still 1 side
You said :
[The Gods do not act to entertain us.]
I disagree,
Zevism is about enjoying life, and achieving goals, and the Gods help in that, the Gods heal, the Gods presence give pleasure feelings, the Gods shower one with love,
All the Gods action is designed to entertain us, with the true and higher meaning of the word,
The Gods help us in the path to Godhead, what is it there more entertaining than this? Judging from a higher perspective
You said:
[we should also avoid immediately attributing every unusual event directly to Them when there are many other possible explanations.]
I agree 100% with this, in fact i am very skeptical, since the worst thing is to drift from the path because of false assumptions.
Thank you for your reply!
I quoted you a lot, the website started telling me ´Too many requests’ making me unable to quote from the thread lol
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