Unanswered question plus extra question

[Stormblood]

I hope I can find an answer or at least a clue in the right direction. After the questions, I have listed the sermons that act as sources. First the unanswered question.


1. From Satanmysoul: "I would like to learn. Can you please tell me which letters are matched to the chakras, which are associated with the elements, and which correspond to the zodiac signs? Thank you!!"

In the sermon, it's written that:

• "The letters of the seven vowels are for the seven chakra's. The vowels are given the sphere shape as they represent spirit." and "With the seven main vowels and their letters also being used in the chakra's to activate them."
• "And within this there are 12 letters that represent the 12 signs of the Zodiac." and "The 12 letters are vibrated into the parts of the body which relate to the Zodiac to open them up."
• "the remaining five letters of the Greek alphabet are the five elements."
• "Each letter has a longer god name of the letter which plays into this as well. This is the sequence for opening the entire soul and uniting it with the body. The sphere and the square together. "

From the first quote, one can gather that α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ, being the vowels, are the letters of the chakras. But where should we start (the alfa)? At the crown or at the root? I think the safest assumption is to say we start from the root, Muladhara.

Borrowing from Sanskrit, the letters of the four elements in Greek should be four semivowels and the fifth element a sibilant. In Greek, the semivowels are λ, μ, ν, ρ, and γ-nasal. The only sibilant in Greek, as far as I know, is σ. While σ could stand for the akasha, the comparison with Sanskrit now seems more narrow for the semivowels. In fact:

• λ could go for the La-sound in Sanskrit, which should be earth
• ρ could go for the Ra-sound in Sanskrit, which is fire.

But what about the others? μ is certainly similar to the Ma-sound of the crown chakra, yet the element of water in Sanskrit is supposed to be related to the Va-sound, which we use for empowering the sacral chakra. Is that a corruption? Furthermore, ν is the Na-sound in Sanskrit, which I recall being said to vibrate into all of the chakras. It was in a sermon and it certainly has that effect, at least when I vibrate it. γ-nasal is something that I'll leave apart, as I don't even understand how to pronounce that letter with anything other than a guttural sound.

Now for the letters that remain: β, γ, δ, ζ, θ, κ, ξ, π, τ, φ, χ, ψ. These should be the letters of the Zodiac. I can take out notes that I've taken from HP Hooded Cobra's numerology report and use them, which would make it look this way:

• β should be Taurus
• γ should be Gemini
• δ should be Cancer (I'm quite certain of this)
• ζ should be Virgo (this is, however, seemingly contradicted in a sermon where it's explained that Virgo is the Hebrew Koph, which is the obsolete Greek letter Koppa)
• θ should be Scorpio
• κ should be Capricorn

Next starts the confusion.

• ξ should be Taurus as well
• π should be Cancer again
• τ should be Libra
• φ should be Sagittarius
• χ should be Capricorn again
• ψ should be Aquarius

Then, where are Aries, Leo and Pisces? According to my notes, they are related to letters that are taken already. Alpha and Nu for Aries, taken by chakras and elements; Epsilon and Rho for Leo, already taken by chakras and the element of fire; Mu and Omega for Pisces, already taken by a chakra and an element. If possible, I'd like for the confusion here to be dispelled. I also have one more question regarding the Greek Alphabet. What happened to the free dead letters? In Isopsephy ϛ was number 6, Ϙ was number 90 and ϡ was number 900. Why were they taken out of the alphabet? (2) One thing to notice is that Sampi (the letter that represents 900) in one ancient script looks exactly like the Tyr rune, Koppa (the letter related to 90) in one ancient script looks exactly the same as the Sol rune. The same can be said for Digamma, which was said to be similar to Sol in a sermon. I also found that another shape of digamma is identical to Oss.


About VA/VAU
It has been recently stated that VA is related to the earth element. Yet, we always used to empower the sacral chakra, which is of the water element. Has that been done to stabilise that particular chakra or should we consider using that mantra for the root chakra now? (3)


Sources:
(1) The Real Cube by HP Mageson
(2) Greek Isopsephy
(3) The Kabala Cube and the Saturn Square by HP Mageson

[luis]

I feel like only the HP can answer your questions. I'm really interested too in 'others' kaballah too but we don't have enough informations and i feel there is more to the kaballah that we know like on how to use the powerful version of the runes that we never got a full explanation Maybe there is a reason for this but i'm super interested and my Astral sense's are not fully open enough to ask to the God's

[Rook]

Now for the letters that remain: β, γ, δ, ζ, θ, κ, ξ, π, τ, φ, χ, ψ. These should be the letters of the Zodiac. I can take out notes that I've taken from HP Hooded Cobra's numerology report and use them, which would make it look this way:

• β should be Taurus
• γ should be Gemini
• δ should be Cancer (I'm quite certain of this)
• ζ should be Virgo (this is, however, seemingly contradicted in a sermon where it's explained that Virgo is the Hebrew Koph, which is the obsolete Greek letter Koppa)
• θ should be Scorpio
• κ should be Capricorn

Next starts the confusion.

• ξ should be Taurus as well
• π should be Cancer again
• τ should be Libra
• φ should be Sagittarius
• χ should be Capricorn again
• ψ should be Aquarius

I've also gotten a numerology report from HPHcobra,
here's what i can deduce based on the reading i got from HPHcobra, letters 1-12 and 13-24 go in order of Aries – Pisces,
α - alpha - Aries - Fire*
β - beta - Taurus - Earth*
γ - gamma - Gemini - Air*
δ - delta - Cancer - Water
ε - epsilon - Leo - Fire
ζ - zeta - Virgo - Earth
η - eta - Libra - Air
θ - theta - Scorpio - Water*
ι - iota - Sagittarius - Fire*
κ - kappa - Capricorn - Earth
λ - lambda - Aquarius - Air
μ - mu - Pisces-Water

ν - nu - Aries - Fire*
ξ - xi - Taurus - Earth
ο - omicorn - Gemini - Air*
π - pi - Cancer - Water
ρ - rho - Leo - Fire
σ - sigma - Virgo - Earth
τ - tau - Libra - Air
υ - upsilon - Scorpio - Water
φ - phi - Saggittarius - Fire
χ - chi - Capricorn - Earth
ψ - psi - Aquarius - Air
ω - omega - Pisces-Water

* = ones i know for sure,
the others well HPHcobra would have to confirm to know for sure.

As for the chakras i'd like to know as well,
from what I've learnt in Sanskrit[devanagri] it's :

HA = हँ = THROAT
YA = यँ = HEART
RA = रँ = SOLAR
VA = वँ = SACRAL
LA = लँ = BASE
Those are all the devanagri semi vowels.
i'm unsure about
MA = मँ = CROWN
THA = थँ = 6TH CHAKRA
as these are consonants in devanagri.

[Stormblood]

I feel like only the HP can answer your questions. I'm really interested too in 'others' kaballah too but we don't have enough information and I feel there is more to the kaballah that we know like on how to use the powerful version of the runes that we never got a full explanation? Maybe there is a reason for this but I'm super interested and my Astral senses are not fully open enough to ask the Gods

Thank you for the interest. Well, in the past they said they were withholding some knowledge to prevent Jews from getting their hands on it. My astral senses aren't either. I'm more the feeling type (astral touch) but talking through that sense is such a pain and is more prone to misunderstandings, in my opinion. The problem is that I'm really itching to know just about everything.

----

I've also gotten a numerology report from HPHcobra,
here's what I can deduce based on the reading I got from HPHcobra, letters 1-12 and 13-24 go in order of Aries – Pisces,
α - alpha - Aries - Fire*
β - beta - Taurus - Earth*
γ - gamma - Gemini - Air*
δ - delta - Cancer - Water
ε - epsilon - Leo - Fire
ζ - zeta - Virgo - Earth
η - eta - Libra - Air
θ - theta - Scorpio - Water*
ι - iota - Sagittarius - Fire*
κ - kappa - Capricorn - Earth
λ - lambda - Aquarius - Air
μ - mu - Pisces-Water

ν - nu - Aries - Fire*
ξ - xi - Taurus - Earth
ο - omicorn - Gemini - Air*
π - pi - Cancer - Water
ρ - rho - Leo - Fire
σ - sigma - Virgo - Earth
τ - tau - Libra - Air
υ - upsilon - Scorpio - Water
φ - phi - Saggittarius - Fire
χ - chi - Capricorn - Earth
ψ - psi - Aquarius - Air
ω - omega - Pisces-Water

* = ones i know for sure,
the others well HPHcobra would have to confirm to know for sure.

As for the chakras i'd like to know as well,
from what I've learnt in Sanskrit[devanagri] it's :

HA = हँ = THROAT
YA = यँ = HEART
RA = रँ = SOLAR
VA = वँ = SACRAL
LA = लँ = BASE
Those are all the devanagri semi vowels.
i'm unsure about
MA = मँ = CROWN
THA = थँ = 6TH CHAKRA
as these are consonants in devanagri.

I had come to the same reasoning about the letters. I can confirm about alpha, delta, epsilon, lambda, xi, nu, rho, omicron and sigma. The problem is that is supposed to be each letter of the alphabet correlates to something. So, while it's normal for things to have similar energies, there are some that are completely occupied by other functions in opening the soul.

As far as I know, Ha in Sanskrit is a sibilant, which should be a kind of semi-vowel but with a different function compared to other semi-vowels. I could remember wrong. Other sibilants in Sanskrit are Ksha, Sa and the two types of Sha. Yet in the sermon is said vowels for the chakras, not the semivowels. The five sounds we use for the first five chakras (at least in the books I've read) are also sounds for the elements. La being earth, Va being water, Ra being fire, Ya being air and Ha being ether/sound.

[luis]

I feel like only the HP can answer your questions. I'm really interested too in 'others' kaballah too but we don't have enough information and I feel there is more to the kaballah that we know like on how to use the powerful version of the runes that we never got a full explanation? Maybe there is a reason for this but I'm super interested and my Astral senses are not fully open enough to ask the Gods

Thank you for the interest. Well, in the past they said they were withholding some knowledge to prevent Jews from getting their hands on it. My astral senses aren't either. I'm more the feeling type (astral touch) but talking through that sense is such a pain and is more prone to misunderstandings, in my opinion. The problem is that I'm really itching to know just about everything.

----

I've also gotten a numerology report from HPHcobra,
here's what I can deduce based on the reading I got from HPHcobra, letters 1-12 and 13-24 go in order of Aries – Pisces,
α - alpha - Aries - Fire*
β - beta - Taurus - Earth*
γ - gamma - Gemini - Air*
δ - delta - Cancer - Water
ε - epsilon - Leo - Fire
ζ - zeta - Virgo - Earth
η - eta - Libra - Air
θ - theta - Scorpio - Water*
ι - iota - Sagittarius - Fire*
κ - kappa - Capricorn - Earth
λ - lambda - Aquarius - Air
μ - mu - Pisces-Water

ν - nu - Aries - Fire*
ξ - xi - Taurus - Earth
ο - omicorn - Gemini - Air*
π - pi - Cancer - Water
ρ - rho - Leo - Fire
σ - sigma - Virgo - Earth
τ - tau - Libra - Air
υ - upsilon - Scorpio - Water
φ - phi - Saggittarius - Fire
χ - chi - Capricorn - Earth
ψ - psi - Aquarius - Air
ω - omega - Pisces-Water

* = ones i know for sure,
the others well HPHcobra would have to confirm to know for sure.

As for the chakras i'd like to know as well,
from what I've learnt in Sanskrit[devanagri] it's :

HA = हँ = THROAT
YA = यँ = HEART
RA = रँ = SOLAR
VA = वँ = SACRAL
LA = लँ = BASE
Those are all the devanagri semi vowels.
i'm unsure about
MA = मँ = CROWN
THA = थँ = 6TH CHAKRA
as these are consonants in devanagri.

I had come to the same reasoning about the letters. I can confirm about alpha, delta, epsilon, lambda, xi, nu, rho, omicron and sigma. The problem is that is supposed to be each letter of the alphabet correlates to something. So, while it's normal for things to have similar energies, there are some that are completely occupied by other functions in opening the soul.

As far as I know, Ha in Sanskrit is a sibilant, which should be a kind of semi-vowel but with a different function compared to other semi-vowels. I could remember wrong. Other sibilants in Sanskrit are Ksha, Sa and the two types of Sha. Yet in the sermon is said vowels for the chakras, not the semivowels. The five sounds we use for the first five chakras (at least in the books I've read) are also sounds for the elements. La being earth, Va being water, Ra being fire, Ya being air and Ha being ether/sound.

Yes, i belive the same, they can't say anything because of the jews but still i'm like you i really want to know
And i'm really interested in using the rune as yantra but there is little informations on how to use them on out souls, even for sanskrit, i belive that even with the Greek kaballah they did the same with their alphabet but like i said there is little informations
By the way i forget to say that the bija Ma is too water like Va, i remember reading this in the book of mantra by Frawley.

[Rook]

As far as I know, Ha in Sanskrit is a sibilant, which should be a kind of semi-vowel but with a different function compared to other semi-vowels. I could remember wrong.

Yes, Ha is 'Aspirate' as the sound comes from the throat, the other sibilants make an 'S' hissing sound

Yet in the sermon is said vowels for the chakras, not the semivowels.

Yes I read the sermon you linked, I also read this sermon What Is The Actual Logos, the book sourced in the sermon ‘The Greek Kabala, Barry’ seemed to have info on this I didn’t real all of it, I just skimmed though to the relevant parts.
Quote :

1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

picture 4 seems to be what we deduced, based on the readings we got.

picture 2 is interesting because the ancient Babylonians made their temples in 7 stages representing the 7 planets, the planets are the chakras, and this seems to represent that.

sauce:
http://www.projectawe.org/blog/2015/6/6 ... en-planets

I mean i have a 'feeling' that these are corrupted which is to expected of course, but the 7 stages of the temple representing the 7 planets seems to correlate well, just the listing above feels of.

i looked up some more of this and found another pdf - 'Joscelyn Godwin-The Mystery of the Seven Vowels_ In Theory and Practice-Phanes Press (1991)'
again i didn't read the entire thing i just skimmed though to the relevant bits.
quote:

1:

2:

You notice in last picture the colors that correspond to the chakras and their respective planets are all reversed?
if i were to take this and base it on the colors i'd get,
Red = base/Saturn - A/alpha
Orange = sacral/Mars - Ε/epsilon
Yellow = Solar/Sun - Η/eta
Green = heart/Mercury - I/iota
Light Blue = throat/Venus - Ο/omicorn
Bluish purple = 6th chakra/Moon - Y/upsilon
Purple = crown/Jupiter - Ω/omega

I upload both if you wish to read them and get the context yourself:
The Greek Qabalah-
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QxEbX ... gmRo9mDxX0
The Mystery of the Seven Vowls in Theory and Practice-
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zRUFI ... vbEcmRTZRm

These sources are obviously corrupted, however they should offer some insight to what you're looking for.

[Stormblood]

...

(You are being really helpful. Thank you. The book by Barry is near the top of my reading list already. I guess I should prioritise it. I don't have the other book, though. Thank you for sharing. Possibly unrelated, do you also happen to have two books, one called "The Western Mysteries" (by David Allen Hulse) and the other called "The Northern Mysteries" (by Freya Aswynn)? I've been struggling to find them and it looks like I will have to buy them if I want to read them. The first one could also be of help in this fascinating dilemma, as well as in the study of numerology until HP Hooded Cobra's book comes out. I feel that Hulse's book could help us related Greek to Sanskrit. Sanskrit is covered in his other books, which is easily found, "The Eastern Mysteries".)


I see Barry makes interesting correlations with the platonic solids as well.

Watching the correlation between letters and elements, a doubt comes up: if in Sanskrit the elements are related to semi-vowels, why aren't they in Greek? The only correlation I can see here, between Sanskrit and Greek, is rho and lambda:

• Rho appears on both my list and Barry's list. In my list, I correlate it to fire, because Rho is the R-sound and in Sanskrit that is fire. The word Ra is the fire in Egyptian as well.
• Lambda only appears on my list and I elaborated that it should be earth, considering the La-sound in Sanskrit but that could be a corruption, because of one of the sermons I linked in the sources of the original post.

I don't see why the Gamma should be related to earth. I'm not native to Greece, but the Gamma letter should be the G-sound we use in the mantra gaum to open up the pineal gland. Shouldn't it be related, then, to either water or ether? It's even more confusing because Gamma relates to the Gemini sign, which is of air. Gamma is probably used in the head also because Gemini rules the nervous system (together with Aries) and the HQ of the nervous is the brain where the most important glands reside: pineal and pituitary, together with the important hypothalamus. The mother of the guttural sounds in Sanskrit is the letter A, associated with the Moon by both books quoted by you. Moon is related to the element of water, though, not earth. Hades is well-associated here, as he is Pluto and Pluto rules one side of the pineal gland. I just don't see why it is of the earth. For balancing purposes?

Delta could be well-suited with water. The first match I see is to the sign of Cancer, which is of the element of water. Furthermore, as far as I know, Delta represents change and mutability which are very suited to the element of water. I may be wrong here. However, in Vedic astrology, water is also described as the ruler of the changeable quality (fire being the ruler of the fixed and air being the ruled of the cardinal, representing movement). I don't see any equivalence with Sanskrit here. The letter D in mantras only appears as the bija mantra of Venus (Drim) and Venus is related to earth, mostly. It's not a semivowel either. The association with the primordial Greek god Chronos doesn't help. It should probably be associated with the Titan Kronos which is the planet Saturn and is related to earth, just like Venus.

Theta and ether. Another dental sound. I have no idea what to think here.

Pi and fire. A labial sound, whose mother is the vowel U. U in Greek is the upsilon, which in both your sources is related to the planet of Jupiter. From what we know from the JoS, Jupiter is related to the element of fire. However, Barry's book relates it to Ares/Mars. The element doesn't change but it could be a corruption.

Rho and air. The letter Rho is from the semivowel R, which in Sanskrit is fire as we already said. It is also related to Leo, which is a fire sign ruled by the Sun. The association with Dionysus doesn't help at all. Dionysus is a form of Zeus. But also of Shiva. I don't know.

About the 7 letters and the temples, there is a sermon that relates to how a Hindu temple is built: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2392 This is not a Babylonian one, though.

About picture 4, yes, but why picture 5 then changes the rule of the game? One seems suited for numerology (4) but the other is more similar to what we're looking for in order to open and empower the soul but why is there a difference? Also, still no clue about what's with the three missing letters, which are useful in numerology, by the way, having certain numerical values.

About planets and elements: http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... cense.html

I'll have to go deep in the study of some books as soon as possible, it seems.

[Rook]

Sanskrit is covered in his other books, which is easily found, "The Eastern Mysteries".

I looked it up, it seems like an intriguing book, thanks

until HP Hooded Cobra's book comes out.

Didn’t know HPHcobra was writing a book, that’s great, I look forward to it.

Possibly unrelated, do you also happen to have two books, one called "The Western Mysteries" (by David Allen Hulse) and the other called "The Northern Mysteries" (by Freya Aswynn)?

The Western Mysteries wasn’t hard to find,
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vq6Sb ... n5ktXah4-n

Northern Mysteries and Magick – Freya Aswynn
However could not be found, as there’s no ebook available for it, well based on what I looked up.
Which is unfortunate, because even if I wanted to buy it I wouldn’t be able to as things are now, as everyone irl knows me as an atheist so I’d rather not have any occult/esoteric books lying around until I get my own place.

The first one could also be of help in this fascinating dilemma.

Based on what I skimmed though, it seems to keep up with the status quo of what’s been sourced before.
Ie alpha to omega – Saturn to moon

However the interesting thing to note, which also came into my mind as I was thinking about it, is the order in which it's arranged, just like the planetary squares Saturn being the smallest(3x3 grid which is the minimum) and then increments by 1 in order of Jupiter -> Mars -> Sun -> Venus -> Mercury -> Moon.

Before I was thinking in terms of Saturn to Jupiter in terms of how our chakras were arranged, but this seems more accurate (Saturn to Moon)

With that being said in regards to planetary squares if you recall the Babylonian temple, which is square shaped, the smallest square is at the top(obviously), now in reference to the picture 2 of barry’s book Alpha is seen at the apex, occupying the smallest square, while omega is at the bottom occupying the widest.

This is the entire thing in reverse.
A/alpha - Saturn
E/epsilon - Jupiter
H/eta - Mars
I/iota - Sun
O/omicron - Venus
Y/upsilon - Mercury
Ω/omega - Moon

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in reverse, the enemy has shifted things around, as how they shifted the Sun and Saturn around, as well as the planets that corresponded to the Throat and Heart chakras.

Watching the correlation between letters and elements, a doubt comes up: if in Sanskrit the elements are related to semi-vowels, why aren't they in Greek? The only correlation I can see here, between Sanskrit and Greek, is rho and lambda:

I’ve not gotten around to really studying Greek yet, HPHcobra suggested that i go straight to Sanskrit and so I did, however Greek is still intriguing, I always found it to be a kool language.

Right about now I’m learning and memorizing the pronunciation of Sanskrit.
Speaking of which, if you’re also looking into Sanskrit, have you found a good numerology system?
So far I’ve looked at the KaTaPaTaYadi system, and it looks like something I’d not ‘poke with a stick’ right now so to say.

Theta and ether. Another dental sound. I have no idea what to think here.

Keep in mind, that HPHcobra does his reading in ancient Greek while it is based on Sanskrit, modern Greek is different and may not correlate that well to Sanskrit, based on what I looked up I think theta and ether seems accurate.

The letter Θ means divine.
L.H. Jeffery’s Table of archaic Greek Letters shows the letter Θ appearing as a circle bisected into four quarters.
…
Galaxies, and the Milky Way galaxy in particular, resemble the letter Θ.

Milky Way Galaxy, with Sun indicated.

http://icanhasdiary.files.wordpress.com ... _sun05.jpg

Milky Way Galaxy.
http://www.gemini.edu/node/11303

Empedocles describes a vortex from which the roots/elements emerged:
“Empedocles tells us of a mysterious vortex . . . like the nebula in Orion or the original of our solar system, that seems to be the first stage of the world process after the motionless harmony of the sphere. Out of this came the elements one by one: first air . . . then fire . . . [then] came the earth . . . and the moist spurted forth [from earth].”

Source –
http://www.greekalphabeta.com/learn-abo ... eta-9.html

In this regard, Latin is of great value to the reconstruction of ancient Greek phonology because of its close proximity to the Greek world which caused numerous Greek words to be borrowed by the Romans. At first, Greek loanwords denoting technical terms or proper names which contained the letter Φ were imported in Latin with the spelling P or PH, indicating an effort to imitate, albeit imperfectly, a sound that Latin lacked. Later on, in the 1st centuries AD, spellings with F start to appear in such loanwords, signaling the onset of the fricative pronunciation of Φ. Thus, in the 2nd century AD, Filippus replaces P(h)ilippus. At about the same time, the letter F also begins to be used as a substitute for the letter Θ, for lack of a better choice, indicating that the sound of Greek theta had become a fricative as well.

Source –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_phonology

I’m not sure if I got the context of that correct, but I assume the sound theta changed, perhaps it did come from the throat like the Sanskrit sound ‘Ha’.

I looked up ‘L.H. Jeffery’s Table of archaic Greek Letters’ i didn't find anything inregards to him,
but i found some images of letters in ancient Greek, and theta seems to resemble the sun wheel, which relates to the swastika.
also the mantra for the Sun square is H-Ram/Rim/Raum so that seems to correlate well.

Some of these letters also resemble the runes, if you get hold of 'Northern mysteries' there could be some correlation.



both sourced here –
http://prepasaintdenis.com/ancient-greek-letters.html


Sourced here –
http://opsopaus.com/OM/BA/GAO.html

One seems suited for numerology (4) but the other is more similar to what we're looking for in order to open and empower the soul but why is there a difference?

4 seems to be referring to something to do with Onomantic Astrology, the only thing I found about that is a booked called Astrologia Esoterica Onomantica by Alfonso Del Bello,
Unfortunately it’s an Italian book, not that it matters as it’s no longer being sold.

I'll have to go deep in the study of some books as soon as possible, it seems.

The limiting factor here is finding out the actual pronunciation of ancient Greek, as modern Greek is different from it, and knowledge of ancient Greek doesn’t seem readily available compared to modern Greek, as to be expected.

[luis]

This is the entire thing in reverse.
A/alpha - Saturn
E/epsilon - Jupiter
H/eta - Mars
I/iota - Sun
O/omicron - Venus
Y/upsilon - Mercury
Ω/omega - Moon

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in reverse, the enemy has shifted things around, as how they shifted the Sun and Saturn around, as well as the planets that corresponded to the Throat and Heart chakras.

I don't know if this is important but when we finish the magnum opus and become a God our chakras switch position, for example the base chakra switch position with the crown chakra and so on with the other chakras. Maybe this is related with what i quoted.

[Sinistra]

This is the entire thing in reverse.
A/alpha - Saturn
E/epsilon - Jupiter
H/eta - Mars
I/iota - Sun
O/omicron - Venus
Y/upsilon - Mercury
Ω/omega - Moon

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in reverse, the enemy has shifted things around, as how they shifted the Sun and Saturn around, as well as the planets that corresponded to the Throat and Heart chakras.

I don't know if this is important but when we finish the magnum opus and become a God our chakras switch position, for example the base chakra switch position with the crown chakra and so on with the other chakras. Maybe this is related with what i quoted.

What is your source for this ?!

[Stormblood]

Didn’t know HPHcobra was writing a book, that’s great, I look forward to it.

I'm actually not so sure if he has had the time to start it yet. I asked him in private when I got my reading and he said he might write it in the future and I said I would buy it. Speaking of the clergy, should I report this topic and try to get an answer from them as well?

Possibly unrelated, do you also happen to have two books, one called "The Western Mysteries" (by David Allen Hulse) and the other called "The Northern Mysteries" (by Freya Aswynn)?

The Western Mysteries wasn’t hard to find,
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vq6Sb ... n5ktXah4-n

Wasn't it? The maybe I'm really bad at researching on the Internet. I always thought so. Thank you so much for taking the time to search for it. I'm not only a reader but also a collector. Here is an old topic with books I cannot find, books that were quoted by the Clergy under their sermon: https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1313

Northern Mysteries and Magick – Freya Aswynn
However could not be found, as there’s no ebook available for it, well based on what I looked up.
Which is unfortunate, because even if I wanted to buy it I wouldn’t be able to as things are now, as everyone irl knows me as an atheist so I’d rather not have any occult/esoteric books lying around until I get my own place.

If I may suggest something, I think it could be worth a shot to buy a cover to mask its title. Maybe put a fake cover on it? I remember reading a similar advice in a sermon or reply.

...

I was reflecting on the arrangements of the planets in the past but not related to this specific topic. I also noticed that the planetary hours of the day follow the same pattern presented in the squares. For example, if we start with Saturn, we see it followed by the hour of Jupiter, then Mars, then Sun, then Venus, then Mercury, then Moon, then again Sun.

Do you mean that the square numbers might be reversed? The Sun would be the only one to ever be correct in that case. Or do you mean that the Babylonian temple actually had Saturn at the top and the Moon at the bottom? I might be overthinking it.

I’ve not gotten around to really studying Greek yet, HPHcobra suggested that I go straight to Sanskrit and so I did, however, Greek is still intriguing, I always found it to be a cool language.

Right about now I’m learning and memorizing the pronunciation of Sanskrit.
Speaking of which, if you’re also looking into Sanskrit, have you found a good numerology system?
So far I’ve looked at the KaTaPaTaYadi system, and it looks like something I’d not ‘poke with a stick’ right now so to say.

I haven't studied Greek either but all the sources I checked have the same vowels, semivowels and consonants. If it was for me, I would actually be studying an Old Celtic language right now, because my fascination with Ireland and the Druids has no boundaries, but I started with Sanskrit as well. If I had started with old Celtic languages, I would've had no support at all for my research, which would mean I'd have had to go blind in there and I'm ready for that yet. So I'm paving the path by enriching my knowledge of other languages firsts, then going into what I really want to in the future. That being said, all languages are actually very fascinating for me, excluding Hebrew and Arabic, because the former sound too sharp/cutting in my ear and the latter sounds too sour.

Unfortunately, no. I haven't looked for a numerology system for Sanskrit yet. In "The Eastern Mysteries", four systems are analysed. These are:

• KaTaPaYa (the one you've looked at)
• ARYaBhaTa II (digital variant)
• KaTaPaYa II (Kerala)
• KaTaPaYa III (Pali)

It also states this in the overview:
After many years of unsuccessful research, the clues offered in two books permitted the complete numerical decipherment of Sanskrit. These two books are The History of Hindu Mathematics by B. Datta and Vedic Mathematics by Bharati K. Tirthaji, an affiliate of Yogananda. Neither text gave the codes in full, but both did provide the skeletal clues necessary to fully decipher each system. Once I had established the correct numerical attributes, I was able to use this key to unlock the pattern of Sanskrit letters upon the petals of the flowers composing the seven chakras. A complete analysis of the symbolism for these seven chakras can be found in the addendum to this chapter.

The rules which govern the numbering of Sanskrit are so complex that only a brief overview of each code will be given in this introduction. Basically, there are eight separate major esoteric alphanumeric codes for Sanskrit. Each was intended to flesh out a set of metaphors for the infinite number range, using such sophisticated techniques as alphabet letters as digits of numbers, zero as a place value, decimal fractions, and number values for letters as high as 100 quadrillions. Though these numerical cyphers for Sanskrit had a utilitarian application to create a very sophisticated body of scientific mathematical techniques, the core essential purpose of these codes, dating back to the origin of the Vedic hymns, is the ability to give symbolic meanings to abstract numbers.

The first four numerical codes for Sanskrit detailed in this section possess the same sophisticated basis for numbering. In this most elaborate method of all for numbering a language, each consonant or conjoined con-sonant is a digit of a composite number. Unlike the Western Hellenistic-Semitic tradition of adding the values of the individual letters of a word together, this Sanskrit code utilizes:

• Alphabet letters as digits of a number
• A base ten numbering system
• Zero as a place value for certain letters, and
• A floating decimal point that can be inserted at any point in a word to change the value of that word to a decimal fraction

The most pristine of the four codes is the third code detailed, the Ker-ala variant of KaTaPaYa. This variant allows the best interface to the metaphors established by Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic. The original code of KaTaPaYa should also be studied, for it is the source of the other three variants. However, the Kerala variant, which I refer to as KaTaPaYa II, is averred by some to be the true Vedic code for Sanskrit, unlocking the hidden lore found in the written verses of the Vedic Hymns. If this is so, the symbolic metaphors found in the decoded Vedas would easily parallel the decoded Torah (Hebrew), New Testament (Greek), and Quran (Arabic).
After these four codes are outlined, examples of all four codes in action are given, followed by a detailed analysis of the numbers 31 and 93 (thrice 31), the two key numbers to Crowley's Book of the Law.

Next, the code known as ARYaBhaTa is detailed, which is a variant of KaTaPaYa. In KaTaPaYa, the vowels receive no number or place value, but in ARYaBhaTa the combination of a vowel and a consonant determine the numerical value of a word. Further, in KaTaPaYa, the individual components of a word (consonants) are the digits of a number, but in ARYaBhaTa, the individual components of a word (consonants and their vowels) are added together to obtain the resultant number value of a word.

Note that in this particular code, the values assigned to individual Sanskrit consonants and vowels can be so astronomically high, that one consonant and vowel combination can result in a number value of one hundred quadrillions (18 place values)! Therefore, the ARYaBhaTa code was devised to flesh out the number range to an extent that most other number codes cannot offer. This code can yield metaphors for the enormous symbolic numbers encountered in such Sanskrit religious classics as the Vedas and the Mahabharata.

I stopped there as it is already a lot to quote. You will find more in the book as well as in the other sources quoted by the book.

...

That is very interesting food for thought. I had never thought of correlating letter shapes to universal systems. However, I doubt Empedocles statement on the elements order of birth. I think it's more reasonable to believe fire and water were the first to come out, then air and finally earth. Makes more sense.

I'm actually thinking this about theta as well: we use the TH sound to unlock the third eye, right? The third is ruled by the ether, isn't it? It is the same with all chakras and extensions from the throat upward. This might be also the meaning behind phi.

The correspondings with the runes are amazing! For example:

• the Chi looks like Algs in some representations, and a reversed Tyr in others. Not to mention that is characteristically Gipt.
• Psi = Sol, Algs and reversed Tyr
• Omega has both the symbol for the sun and the symbol of Leo
• Sigma = Sol
• Rho = Vend and Raidho
• San = Ior
• Csi = a combination of Gipt and Sol, Gipt in some other, a combination of Algs and Ior, not to mention a Dagaz turned 90°, an equal-armed cross
• Mu = Ior
• Lambda = Logr
• Iota = Is, Sol sometimes
• Theta to me resembles the astrological symbol for Earth: an equal-armed cross inside a circle
• Eta = Bjork in some
• Digamma = undoubtedly Oss
• Gamma = Kaun
• Beta = Bjork

Another thing to mention is that in the first diagram there are all of the 27 letters used in numerology, not just 24. In the second there are 29 and the third is the only one with 24 letters.

4 seems to be referring to something to do with Onomantic Astrology, the only thing I found about that is a booked called Astrologia Esoterica Onomantica by Alfonso Del Bello,
Unfortunately it’s an Italian book, not that it matters as it’s no longer being sold.

Well, we're in luck about the fact it is an Italian book since I speak Italian natively and can understand older writing styles and words. This way there would no need to rely on poor-quality translations by the Italian forum moderator. The trick is finding the book. Unfortunately, I can't find it. From the author, I only managed to find Astrochiromanzia (Astrocheiromancy, which is a branch fo Astropalmistry).

The limiting factor here is finding out the actual pronunciation of ancient Greek, as modern Greek is different from it, and knowledge of ancient Greek doesn’t seem readily available compared to modern Greek, as to be expected.

Ancient Greek is studied in Italy in high schools that have a classical curriculum. Unfortunately (for the topic at hand), I come from a high school with a scientific background, not classical. I only ever studied Latin there and not as in-depth as I would've liked.

I don't know if this is important but when we finish the magnum opus and become a God our chakras switch position, for example, the base chakra switch position with the crown chakra and so on with the other chakras. Maybe this is related to what I quoted.

Well, you do have a point but I remember they actually merged, not switched. Maybe it's two different steps that we remember?

[luis]

This is the entire thing in reverse.
A/alpha - Saturn
E/epsilon - Jupiter
H/eta - Mars
I/iota - Sun
O/omicron - Venus
Y/upsilon - Mercury
Ω/omega - Moon

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in reverse, the enemy has shifted things around, as how they shifted the Sun and Saturn around, as well as the planets that corresponded to the Throat and Heart chakras.

I don't know if this is important but when we finish the magnum opus and become a God our chakras switch position, for example the base chakra switch position with the crown chakra and so on with the other chakras. Maybe this is related with what i quoted.

What is your source for this ?!

I don't know if this is important but when we finish the magnum opus and become a God our chakras switch position, for example, the base chakra switch position with the crown chakra and so on with the other chakras. Maybe this is related to what I quoted.

Well, you do have a point but I remember they actually merged, not switched. Maybe it's two different steps that we remember?

So i was going to link here http://www.satanslibrary.org/666BlackSu ... ymbols.htm
But i actualy found out that this information was eliminated from the english Joy of Satan and the italian one is not updated, this is what i read in the italian Jos

La croce invertita è un simbolo molto antico, che - EBBENE SI - è precedente al Cristianesimo e alla sua radice Ebraica di diverse migliaia di anni. Il suo vero significato è l’ottenimento del Magnum Opus [Grande Opera], quando i chakra si invertono ed il chakra di base, quello sacrale e del plesso solare si trovano nella metà superiore dell’anima, ed il chakra della corona, l’ajna [il sesto], e quello della gola si spostano in basso.

from here http://www.itajos.com/SIMBOLI%20SATANICI.htm

It's probabily old stuff that was never updated on the italian Jos
And now that you said it Stormblood i remember reading that the chakras merge after the magnum opus.

By the way i have a question, do you think that the Greek alphabet, the Rune and other language used in kaballah are like charged sigils? They have been used in kaballah for a long time so i wouldn't be suprised if they are, if i'm not wrong i remember HP Mageson said that the hebrew letters are like charged sigils, so even meditating on those 'sigils' should have some power right?

[Stormblood]

So i was going to link here http://www.satanslibrary.org/666BlackSu ... ymbols.htm
But i actualy found out that this information was eliminated from the english Joy of Satan and the italian one is not updated, this is what i read in the italian Jos

La croce invertita è un simbolo molto antico, che - EBBENE SI - è precedente al Cristianesimo e alla sua radice Ebraica di diverse migliaia di anni. Il suo vero significato è l’ottenimento del Magnum Opus [Grande Opera], quando i chakra si invertono ed il chakra di base, quello sacrale e del plesso solare si trovano nella metà superiore dell’anima, ed il chakra della corona, l’ajna [il sesto], e quello della gola si spostano in basso.

from here http://www.itajos.com/SIMBOLI%20SATANICI.htm

It's probabily old stuff that was never updated on the italian Jos
And now that you said it Stormblood i remember reading that the chakras merge after the magnum opus.

I never doubted your claim to be true. I was wondering if I remembered wrong. The Italian website is outdated in many points. Someone even pointed out that some descriptions of demons are that way as well. The only one who can do anything about it is the site owner. I tried giving my contribution in the past and the discussion with Gerecht didn't go well at all. I tried providing some translations of mine (the RTRs translated correctly) to Hooded Cobra but I didn't receive any feedback about nor were the incorrect affirmations corrected. It's out of my hands.

It's probabily old stuff that was never updated on the italian Jos
And now that you said it Stormblood i remember reading that the chakras merge after the magnum opus.

By the way I have a question, do you think that the Greek alphabet, the Rune and other language used in kaballah are like charged sigils? They have been used in kaballah for a long time so I wouldn't be surprised if they are, if I'm not wrong I remember HP Mageson said that the hebrew letters are like charged sigils, so even meditating on those 'sigils' should have some power right?

From what I can remember, runes and the Sanskrit alphabet are actually taken from universal sounds, rather than being empowered a posteriori. Hebrew has instead been empowered by thousands of years of witchcraft like you said. I don't know about Ancient Greek and other languages. Maybe someone else can answer. I think that the answer to you is yes, it should. Isn't that what you do when doing rune magick? You visualise them in the form of a yantra/sigil in your body or all over your aura. You do the same with chakras. If you are inexperienced you see the yantra, which is actually a visual representation of the energies that shape the chakras.

[luis]

So i was going to link here http://www.satanslibrary.org/666BlackSu ... ymbols.htm
But i actualy found out that this information was eliminated from the english Joy of Satan and the italian one is not updated, this is what i read in the italian Jos

La croce invertita è un simbolo molto antico, che - EBBENE SI - è precedente al Cristianesimo e alla sua radice Ebraica di diverse migliaia di anni. Il suo vero significato è l’ottenimento del Magnum Opus [Grande Opera], quando i chakra si invertono ed il chakra di base, quello sacrale e del plesso solare si trovano nella metà superiore dell’anima, ed il chakra della corona, l’ajna [il sesto], e quello della gola si spostano in basso.

from here http://www.itajos.com/SIMBOLI%20SATANICI.htm

It's probabily old stuff that was never updated on the italian Jos
And now that you said it Stormblood i remember reading that the chakras merge after the magnum opus.

I never doubted your claim to be true. I was wondering if I remembered wrong. The Italian website is outdated in many points. Someone even pointed out that some descriptions of demons are that way as well. The only one who can do anything about it is the site owner. I tried giving my contribution in the past and the discussion with Gerecht didn't go well at all. I tried providing some translations of mine (the RTRs translated correctly) to Hooded Cobra but I didn't receive any feedback about nor were the incorrect affirmations corrected. It's out of my hands.

It's probabily old stuff that was never updated on the italian Jos
And now that you said it Stormblood i remember reading that the chakras merge after the magnum opus.

By the way I have a question, do you think that the Greek alphabet, the Rune and other language used in kaballah are like charged sigils? They have been used in kaballah for a long time so I wouldn't be surprised if they are, if I'm not wrong I remember HP Mageson said that the hebrew letters are like charged sigils, so even meditating on those 'sigils' should have some power right?

From what I can remember, runes and the Sanskrit alphabet are actually taken from universal sounds, rather than being empowered a posteriori. Hebrew has instead been empowered by thousands of years of witchcraft like you said. I don't know about Ancient Greek and other languages. Maybe someone else can answer. I think that the answer to you is yes, it should. Isn't that what you do when doing rune magick? You visualise them in the form of a yantra/sigil in your body or all over your aura. You do the same with chakras. If you are inexperienced you see the yantra, which is actually a visual representation of the energies that shape the chakras.

Then i should read the english Jos more

About the rune i know that they are taken from costelation (i'm talking about the 'sigils' of the runes) and of course the sound is like you said (i belive that there is a universal sound and so there is really no differences in sanskrit and runes, like we have Sowilo(Saulo the more powerful) and in sakrit Sa is fire like Ra and we have Raidho with the rune, so they are taken from the same universal sound) but i feel like that other than what you said about the shape of the rune that is powerful on is own, after being used for many years they are like charged sigils, so meditating on them is already powerful, i didn't used to visualize the rune when i used them for a long time but when i started doing it, the power that i felt is a lot. This is what i think, maybe a HP could say something about this (and what is been asked with the OP )

I want to say one last thing, i been reading in this days a lot about sigils and i been wondering if i could create a 'magical alphabet' that i can empower like sigils and use it in my magick or to do "quick" magick, the only thing is i don't know if would be useful or not, what i think is that i could connect each "letters" to a planet and a element and let it draw energy from them so that i can use the "letters" to empower my magick, i've seen on google that there some people that did this but of course our magick is more strong because we can use mantra and so on. What do you think?

[Stormblood]

In a sermon I re-read, it states that A is the Moon. So the alpha must be that. That's possibly the correct order, with the moon at the top being alpha and Saturn at the bottom being Omega.

[MoonlessNight666]

I have been literally craving for some info on the last 2 chakras ( and I cama across a clue on The Emerald Tablets of Thoth) and on the earth cakra

[Stormblood]

I have been literally craving for some info on the last 2 chakras ( and I cama across a clue on The Emerald Tablets of Thoth) and on the earth cakra

What do you mean?

[Stormblood]

I just realised something about the vowels. In this whole discussion I've been approaching it all wrong.

I do not think it is a case they're order in the way they are, from Alpha/Moon to Omega/Saturn. There is no mistake and the hint has always been under my nose all the time. It's actually of different way of working on the chakras/planets and that is related not to the order they are positioned in the body but to the order used in Necronomicon meditations for opening them!

[National-Satanist]

3:

In greek tradition, Swastika is called Gammadion, a extension of letter Gamma. In runic system, the Swastika is called Gebo. According to Guido Von List, the rune Gebo is the rune of Earth. And the Greek Gamma is also related to Earth.

[National-Satanist]

3:

In greek tradition, Swastika is called Gammadion, a extension of letter Gamma. In runic system, the Swastika is called Gebo. According to Guido Von List, the rune Gebo is the rune of Earth. And the Greek Gamma is also related to Earth.

I forgot to say that the Egyptian god of earth was called Geb.

[Stormblood]

3:

In greek tradition, Swastika is called Gammadion, a extension of letter Gamma. In runic system, the Swastika is called Gebo. According to Guido Von List, the rune Gebo is the rune of Earth. And the Greek Gamma is also related to Earth.

Thank you for your contribution. This thread needed revving up, Do you think that Gamma is related to Gaum? Also, Gam/Gaum is stated to be the mantra of the Vedic God Ganesha. Ganesha is pictured with the head of an elephant, which in the Bhagavad Gita in white represents wisdom. Ganesha is linked by Frawley, oddly, to the root chakra but that may be because it's related to Earth and some people say that Saturn is related to wisdom in a way (terrestrial widsom)?

[National-Satanist]

Thank you for your contribution. This thread needed revving up, Do you think that Gamma is related to Gaum? Also, Gam/Gaum is stated to be the mantra of the Vedic God Ganesha. Ganesha is pictured with the head of an elephant, which in the Bhagavad Gita in white represents wisdom. Ganesha is linked by Frawley, oddly, to the root chakra but that may be because it's related to Earth and some people say that Saturn is related to wisdom in a way (terrestrial widsom)?

According to Guido Von List, the rune Gibor was originally called Ge. I think that “Ge” and “Gamma” are cognates. The both comes from Gam, which is the Ganesh's Beej Mantra.