Tiamat and Kingu

[AstralSnowfall666]

So for a while now I've been working with Tiamat and Kingu of Sumerian Paganism. I understand that JoS is more on the Marduk side but I want to know what you guys think about working with Tiamat and her children as well as Kingu? The rituals and meditations I've done with Tiamat are amazing, to me she is a very loving yet tragic Goddess. Interested to know what you all think of it since I don't recall the name Tiamat being mentioned on JoS at all.

Hail Satan!

[HP. Hoodedcobra666]

There is something you seem to know zero things about. That your mind can have intense creativity and create gods out of a banana. For this reason assosciating with the actual Gods can never really happen, you can associate with your mind. True communication with the Gods is not on the level of jokes such as you describe.

Tiamat and "Kingu"... I mean Tiamat is basically the goddess of the waters. Which is a concept. Like "Fire" or any other such concept. Literalizing these concepts is what leads many people to think in memetic bullshit such as 'oh Marduk is against Tiamat', pick a side guys. And humanize these myths. These myths are allegories of taming the universe and it's forces. The Gods only scarcely appear through the myths.

And because I know why most of your kind comes to stir trouble rather than get answers, be careful of what you post, because there will be zero tolerance to deception.

[AstralSnowfall666]

There is something you seem to know zero things about. That your mind can have intense creativity and create gods out of a banana. For this reason assosciating with the actual Gods can never really happen, you can associate with your mind. True communication with the Gods is not on the level of jokes such as you describe.

Tiamat and "Kingu"... I mean Tiamat is basically the goddess of the waters. Which is a concept. Like "Fire" or any other such concept. Literalizing these concepts is what leads many people to think in memetic bullshit such as 'oh Marduk is against Tiamat', pick a side guys. And humanize these myths. These myths are allegories of taming the universe and it's forces. The Gods only scarcely appear through the myths.

And because I know why most of your kind comes to stir trouble rather than get answers, be careful of what you post, because there will be zero tolerance to deception.

I haven't come to stir trouble, I'm a student of the occult and I want to understand all forms of Satanism to the best of my ability, including the JoS. I'm not sure why you're so pissed off, I'm just looking to understand your point of view. I'm reading all sorts of stuff like Temple of the Black Light, Order of the Nine Angles/Anton Long, Asha Shedim, S. Ben Qayin, Asenath Mason, and Mark Alan Smith/Primal Craft. I want to have a well-rounded understanding of Satanism.

I understand your concept of how you can make Gods out of everything (like a banana) but I don't see why that necessarily invalidates it. For example, many Gods have food that is supposedly sacred to them, so perhaps that "food God" you have worshipped is actually a manifestation of a real God, just probably a much weaker and sillier form from an outside perspective.

I also disagree that Tiamat is merely a goddess of water, she's a lot more than that. She rules over her black waters, sure but she's also a dragon who was slain by Marduk and her death created the Earth, at least that's how the story goes. When Kingu was slain, humanity was created, so we have the blood of Kingu in us all, the black flame. Even if you take these stories as allegory, I see referring to her as merely water is an oversimplification and simply inaccurate.

[HP. Hoodedcobra666]

No it is not, because Water is actually containing all the elements you described, I just like to babble less, because these are well known associations with water by everyone here. Tiamat is a concept of the Shakti energy. That's all. A piece of it creates the Earth. Which is the Greek Γη or Gaia. Also called Mother Earth. This is why Marduk uses a piece of her to create. Because she is a concept, not a living entity. She is similar to the Greek titan Rhea, which symbolizes the same thing. Abstract natural concepts and principals for life. Rhea literally just means flow in Ancient Greek. Same story as Tiamat, she was in some epics murdered by her son. Which is an allegory of refining these forces.

Which is one of the titanic mothers of creation. So what we have flow...which is a principle. The same thing is considered by the so called "Black Flame" and "Tiamat". Fire and Water. Which is the feminine and masculine in their grossest chaotic representation. As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool.

Portraying these as 'sides' is just flat retarded, confusing philosophy with spiritual reality. I recall many "Satanist but not JoS" Satanists come to preach that nonsense here, which I have to tell you, are not accepted. To them we are going to be 'enlightened' by their useless crap. But the issue is we are beyond it so tolerance grows lower and lower for tarded pseudo-philosophical discussion and acceptance of what has made our God into an evil spook. So as every has rights to not tolerate some things. We don't tolerate much of their own crap. Because we are who we are.

If you are here for good, then good. However we are not these people whom you study about, and also, our perceptions range differently.

Your creative imagination is subjective, the actuality is objective. What you imagine would be 'true' only insofar you are concerned. So it's subservient and nothing further than a mental exercise. Therefore you cannot be pushing only your subjective beliefs as literal. This is a crime. The same crime is being done by many ego-sick so called "Satanists" some of which you mention. They forcibly pushed jewish shit as a result. We tolerate ZERO jewish shit here. If you feel uneasy with that, move along into the endless sea of other 'material'.

There was one person who used to imagine they were speaking to Abraham Lincoln. Truly their imaginations seemed very real to them. Were they speaking to Abraham Lincoln, the actual one? No. They were speaking an apparition of their own mind. Clever as it is, it's only limited to your own perceptions and it has nothing superior to offer. So promoting your personal apparitions as legitimate spirituality is wrong and damning.

Which I had to point out, as many so called "Satanists" come here all the time trying to preach bullshit because they simply 'studied' it somewhere, with zero awareness over matters, and with plentiful tongue and ignorance. To which they always ignorantly detract back and they scorn the JoS. Here we praise Satan as the embodiment of Truth.

[AstralSnowfall666]

No it is not, because Water is actually containing all the elements you described, I just like to babble less, because these are well known associations with water by everyone here. Tiamat is a concept of the Shakti energy. That's all. A piece of it creates the Earth. Which is the Greek Γη or Gaia. Also called Mother Earth. This is why Marduk uses a piece of her to create. Because she is a concept, not a living entity. She is similar to the Greek titan Rhea, which symbolizes the same thing. Abstract natural concepts and principals for life. Rhea literally just means flow in Ancient Greek. Same story as Tiamat, she was in some epics murdered by her son. Which is an allegory of refining these forces.

Which is one of the titanic mothers of creation. So what we have flow...which is a principle. The same thing is considered by the so called "Black Flame" and "Tiamat". Fire and Water. Which is the feminine and masculine in their grossest chaotic representation. As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool.

Portraying these as 'sides' is just flat retarded, confusing philosophy with spiritual reality. I recall many "Satanist but not JoS" Satanists come to preach that nonsense here, which I have to tell you, are not accepted. To them we are going to be 'enlightened' by their useless crap. But the issue is we are beyond it so tolerance grows lower and lower for tarded pseudo-philosophical discussion and acceptance of what has made our God into an evil spook. So as every has rights to not tolerate some things. We don't tolerate much of their own crap. Because we are who we are.

If you are here for good, then good. However we are not these people whom you study about, and also, our perceptions range differently.

Your creative imagination is subjective, the actuality is objective. What you imagine would be 'true' only insofar you are concerned. So it's subservient and nothing further than a mental exercise. Therefore you cannot be pushing only your subjective beliefs as literal. This is a crime. The same crime is being done by many ego-sick so called "Satanists" some of which you mention. They forcibly pushed jewish shit as a result. We tolerate ZERO jewish shit here. If you feel uneasy with that, move along into the endless sea of other 'material'.

There was one person who used to imagine they were speaking to Abraham Lincoln. Truly their imaginations seemed very real to them. Were they speaking to Abraham Lincoln, the actual one? No. They were speaking an apparition of their own mind. Clever as it is, it's only limited to your own perceptions and it has nothing superior to offer. So promoting your personal apparitions as legitimate spirituality is wrong and damning.

Which I had to point out, as many so called "Satanists" come here all the time trying to preach bullshit because they simply 'studied' it somewhere, with zero awareness over matters, and with plentiful tongue and ignorance. To which they always ignorantly detract back and they scorn the JoS. Here we praise Satan as the embodiment of Truth.

These are thought-provoking ideas for sure, thanks for clearing up how the JoS views Tiamat

I don't think I'm "superior" to anyone and I don't want to preach at anyone, The reason I'd like to have a dialogue is:
a.) to understand your position better
and
b.) to challenge my own, because I think it's important to question everything, especially your own convictions.

However I must point out that "As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool." really just sounds like an ad-hominem to me. Instead of addressing the concepts, you're just calling them "emo", which is flippant and unnecessary.

Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from and I got the answers I was looking for. I appreciate your honesty.

Hails

[HP. Hoodedcobra666]

...

These are thought-provoking ideas for sure, thanks for clearing up how the JoS views Tiamat

I don't think I'm "superior" to anyone and I don't want to preach at anyone, The reason I'd like to have a dialogue is:
a.) to understand your position better
and
b.) to challenge my own, because I think it's important to question everything, especially your own convictions.

However I must point out that "As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool." really just sounds like an ad-hominem to me. Instead of addressing the concepts, you're just calling them "emo", which is flippant and unnecessary.

Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from and I got the answers I was looking for. I appreciate your honesty.

Hails

It's not ad hominem it's a reality. These people are emo, they only dress in black, only try to play the dark bats 24/7, and do exactly what the anti-christian is supposed to do. Be emo and carnal at the same time. This is not the identity we promote here in the JoS, but we accept being emo or following the metal-type of dressing etc. Some people like it still don't. But you don't have to act like a bat or ghoul as a pre-ordainment in order to join us, that's all.

The Black Flame is simply the living fire, it's called black because it's invisible (therefore "black") and is one aspect of what is essential to life, the masculine element. The Dragon Tiamat is the Shakti energy, which is also called the Dragon or the Serpent, and is of the feminine polarity, the water element. Fire and Water are the primordial elements of creation.

[AstralSnowfall666]

...

These are thought-provoking ideas for sure, thanks for clearing up how the JoS views Tiamat

I don't think I'm "superior" to anyone and I don't want to preach at anyone, The reason I'd like to have a dialogue is:
a.) to understand your position better
and
b.) to challenge my own, because I think it's important to question everything, especially your own convictions.

However I must point out that "As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool." really just sounds like an ad-hominem to me. Instead of addressing the concepts, you're just calling them "emo", which is flippant and unnecessary.

Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from and I got the answers I was looking for. I appreciate your honesty.

Hails

It's not ad hominem it's a reality. These people are emo, they only dress in black, only try to play the dark bats 24/7, and do exactly what the anti-christian is supposed to do. Be emo and carnal at the same time. This is not the identity we promote here in the JoS, but we accept being emo or following the metal-type of dressing etc. Some people like it still don't. But you don't have to act like a bat or ghoul as a pre-ordainment in order to join us, that's all.

The Black Flame is simply the living fire, it's called black because it's invisible (therefore "black") and is one aspect of what is essential to life, the masculine element. The Dragon Tiamat is the Shakti energy, which is also called the Dragon or the Serpent, and is of the feminine polarity, the water element. Fire and Water are the primordial elements of creation.

The only issue I have with that is that Shakti (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the subject) seems to be a cosmic, causal energy where as Tiamat is an Anti-cosmic and Acausal force, as is the black flame.

[HP. Hoodedcobra666]

These are thought-provoking ideas for sure, thanks for clearing up how the JoS views Tiamat

I don't think I'm "superior" to anyone and I don't want to preach at anyone, The reason I'd like to have a dialogue is:
a.) to understand your position better
and
b.) to challenge my own, because I think it's important to question everything, especially your own convictions.

However I must point out that "As for the emo bullshit about "Ze Black Flame and the Supar Dragun Tiamat"...Only emo "Satanists" would be interested in such terms to feel cool." really just sounds like an ad-hominem to me. Instead of addressing the concepts, you're just calling them "emo", which is flippant and unnecessary.

Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from and I got the answers I was looking for. I appreciate your honesty.

Hails

It's not ad hominem it's a reality. These people are emo, they only dress in black, only try to play the dark bats 24/7, and do exactly what the anti-christian is supposed to do. Be emo and carnal at the same time. This is not the identity we promote here in the JoS, but we accept being emo or following the metal-type of dressing etc. Some people like it still don't. But you don't have to act like a bat or ghoul as a pre-ordainment in order to join us, that's all.

The Black Flame is simply the living fire, it's called black because it's invisible (therefore "black") and is one aspect of what is essential to life, the masculine element. The Dragon Tiamat is the Shakti energy, which is also called the Dragon or the Serpent, and is of the feminine polarity, the water element. Fire and Water are the primordial elements of creation.

The only issue I have with that is that Shakti (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the subject) seems to be a cosmic, causal energy where as Tiamat is an Anti-cosmic and Acausal force, as is the black flame.

Shakti is 'anti-cosmic' insofar it rules over creation. So it's cosmic and anti-cosmic at the same time. 'Cosmos' meaning the material realm is not the actual 'creation'. While Shakti rules creation, she is present almost nowhere 'materially' to be seen. So it's anti-cosmic at the same time, a spiritual and invisible force.

[AstralSnowfall666]

It's not ad hominem it's a reality. These people are emo, they only dress in black, only try to play the dark bats 24/7, and do exactly what the anti-christian is supposed to do. Be emo and carnal at the same time. This is not the identity we promote here in the JoS, but we accept being emo or following the metal-type of dressing etc. Some people like it still don't. But you don't have to act like a bat or ghoul as a pre-ordainment in order to join us, that's all.

The Black Flame is simply the living fire, it's called black because it's invisible (therefore "black") and is one aspect of what is essential to life, the masculine element. The Dragon Tiamat is the Shakti energy, which is also called the Dragon or the Serpent, and is of the feminine polarity, the water element. Fire and Water are the primordial elements of creation.

The only issue I have with that is that Shakti (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the subject) seems to be a cosmic, causal energy where as Tiamat is an Anti-cosmic and Acausal force, as is the black flame.

Shakti is 'anti-cosmic' insofar it rules over creation. So it's cosmic and anti-cosmic at the same time. 'Cosmos' meaning the material realm is not the actual 'creation'. While Shakti rules creation, she is present almost nowhere 'materially' to be seen. So it's anti-cosmic at the same time, a spiritual and invisible force.

But doesn't that still mark an essential difference between the two?

[Mageson666]

These allegories simply relate to the steps of the Magnum Opus as stated.

Shakti is energy and Shiva is the consciousness of that energy field what it produces which is also the concept of sacred geometry the vibrational templates that form all existence across different levels of density.

Everything must have some physicality to it to exist even on the most subtle plane. Light can be measured by modern instruments now in the sense of density. And anything must be a vibrational force to exist and thus must also be a light wave even on a subtle level and have consciousness to some degree.

They did experiments where they put a dish of water in a sterile lab and just ran a electric pulse thought it. And DNA thus life started to form in the water. Where did it come from...... These could just be patterns already in the underlying ether field that were materialized into the level of existence we can perceive them.

[AstralSnowfall666]

These allegories simply relate to the steps of the Magnum Opus as stated.

Shakti is energy and Shiva is the consciousness of that energy field what it produces which is also the concept of sacred geometry the vibrational templates that form all existence across different levels of density.

Everything must have some physicality to it to exist even on the most subtle plane. Light can be measured by modern instruments now in the sense of density. And anything must be a vibrational force to exist and thus must also be a light wave even on a subtle level and have consciousness to some degree.

They did experiments where they put a dish of water in a sterile lab and just ran a electric pulse thought it. And DNA thus life started to form in the water. Where did it come from...... These could just be patterns already in the underlying ether field that were materialized into the level of existence we can perceive them.

Here's what doesn't make sense to me. If Tiamat and Kingu are allegories then why aren't Marduk and Enki?

[Mageson666]

In what sense.

[AstralSnowfall666]

In what sense.

I mean If one God is just an allegory than what stops the other Gods from being allegories by the same logic? What makes Enki and Marduk different from those Gods in terms of their literal existence?

[BoRn of fire]

In what sense.

I ddnt get this response until after the voc lmao ... Thor hammer ... Ok I'll shut up now hahah

[Sacred_Practice9]

These allegories simply relate to the steps of the Magnum Opus as stated.

Shakti is energy and Shiva is the consciousness of that energy field what it produces which is also the concept of sacred geometry the vibrational templates that form all existence across different levels of density.

Everything must have some physicality to it to exist even on the most subtle plane. Light can be measured by modern instruments now in the sense of density. And anything must be a vibrational force to exist and thus must also be a light wave even on a subtle level and have consciousness to some degree.

They did experiments where they put a dish of water in a sterile lab and just ran a electric pulse thought it. And DNA thus life started to form in the water. Where did it come from...... These could just be patterns already in the underlying ether field that were materialized into the level of existence we can perceive them.

Here's what doesn't make sense to me. If Tiamat and Kingu are allegories then why aren't Marduk and Enki?

Because Marduk and Enki are real beings, and those are allegories. That is the difference. Hoodedcobra explained this to you already.

[HP. Hoodedcobra666]

In what sense.

I mean If one God is just an allegory than what stops the other Gods from being allegories by the same logic? What makes Enki and Marduk different from those Gods in terms of their literal existence?

This is because the Gods are not truly 'just that' but they are also ex-terrestrial entities. Which later were put or put themselves in the universal roleplay to give to primitive brains the understanding of the occult sciences and genealogy.

It's as me dressing as a duck for my little son to see. I am not a duck nor it matters if my son grows up and realizes that the duck dress was only used to help him understand about the world of ducks. That doesn't discredit my existence either.

Nor it has to contradict it. It's roleplay, you give faces to energies to understand them better, but at the same time, these have faces because truly, there are entities sitting behind these teachings. And they gave you the idea to give them a face in the first place. Because truly there was someone doing the duck there.

[Mageson666]

The ancient texts mention that yes the Gods are real and were on earth in the golden age. However after the loss of this age around ten thousand years ago it was decided to put the information they gave us of the Magnum Opus and the soul into a symbolic or archetypical language or metaphor to then create culture around to ensure the survival of this knowledge into the future ages. As part of this the Gods were then lent to different metaphor's to do with this subject. If you study the science of memory, humans remember things better with Right Side brain concepts such as symbols and metaphor's.

By creating a universal culture around this including language concepts its made it almost impossible for the enemy to remove this from the planet totality.

In what sense.

I mean If one God is just an allegory than what stops the other Gods from being allegories by the same logic? What makes Enki and Marduk different from those Gods in terms of their literal existence?

[Cacique Satanás]

If you don't want to confuse yourself...try to work with the 72 Goetia Demons and try to find their allegories,spiritual teachings and essence, their variations and how they influence certain myths.

For example, Quetzalcoatl is considered as a God and he even has awesome legends. Quetzalcoatl is a title giving to priests who achieved spiritual enlightment.

Now, Quetzalcoatl can be:
1- An Extra terrestrial and this being the essence of what we call "Satanama" and creator God.
2- The serpent(coatl and the vertebrae spine) and this having feathers(chakras) of Quetzal(the nature of this bird is similar to the peacock and was associated with the Divine realm).
3- Feathered serpent or a fiery serpent that burns, this is a reference to the kundalini and this turns hot when it is activated. In Nahuatl the word "K'untalilni" is the same as the Sanskrit word "Kundalini".
4- In one of the myths of the birth of Quetzalcoatl, he is a son that was born from the cosmic womb(Akasha element) and he was related to the Air element. 4 children(air,water,earth and fire) coming from a womb(akasha) can be a possibility that all existence in this plane has an origin in the aether or the creative force of the universe.
5- Title given to important priests that worked with the Gods.
6-Quetzalcoatl(magnum opus I will call it in this case) was created thanks to the philosopher stone. The creator God put a jade gem inside a grain of corn(male elixir) and a virgin girl(female elixir) ate the food and got pregnant and this gave birth to Quetzalcoatl(mixing both male and female elixirs and reach to your inmortality,also giving this type of energy to all your chakras in the process)

This is the reason of don't consider the characters from the legends as real characters or events that once happened in real life because this will lead you to delusion. All myths have to be studied in depth.

[AstralSnowfall666]

So, Marduk translates to "calf of the sun", therefore we can surmise Sumerians knew science, and thusly dubbed photosynthesis as "Marduk". Metaphors in translation! XD

[Mageson666]

Marduk took Tiamat and cut her body into 12 parts and put them in the sky. The 12 signs of the Zodiac. Tiamat is the primal energy of creation that forms the body and Marduk is the divine mind the intelligence that forms from such.

[AstralSnowfall666]

Marduk took Tiamat and cut her body into 12 parts and put them in the sky. The 12 signs of the Zodiac. Tiamat is the primal energy of creation that forms the body and Marduk is the divine mind the intelligence that forms from such.

The point I'm making is I think there's an aspect of metaphor to it and a literal part as well. Tiamat means "Maiden of Life" and Enki means "Lord of the Earth" - both are literal and metaphorical deities in my view. Tiamat is still resting beneath the Earth, that is her spirit still rests there and that's why we can still communicate with her through ritual. She is very, very loving yet tragic as well.