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High heels, makeup, and masculinity

Jrvan

Jrvan

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
2,015
The Outlaw Torn said:
Would you put on your high heels makeup for me jrvan? You really are the shining beacon of masculinity.
Click to expand...

A few centuries ago, it was commonplace for men to wear high heels and makeup. Far from the t-shirt rebel look of today, if you weren't well-dressed then you were considered something closer to a monkey rather than a man. In fact, high heels alone were so closely identified with masculine identity that females were forbidden from wearing them for quite some time. Of course you wouldn't be aware of that because your knowledge of fashion trends and cultural history is about as extensive as your understanding of political theories or economics.

Personally I abhor high heels as well as heeled shoes of any kind. I believe the heeled shoe was an invention of the jew to ruin our feet. Our ancestors prior to that technology's invention never had it nor imagined of any need for it. Not in Rome, not in Scandinavia, not in Egypt nor any other part of Africa, not anywhere in Asia or elsewhere. The footwear was always as flat as a Roman leather sandal even in the North. Why? Probably because our natural foot has no need for so much support. The ancients would have looked at an idea like the high heel and probably laughed at it because they would have understood that the foot would atrophy if the shoe does all the work for it. Our bodies weren't designed as a masterpiece of nature to just not be used. Every part of our bodies has a purpose, and the heeled shoe denies the purpose of the foot's design.

I know I said I would give you the last word, but I changed my mind. I decided to turn your juvenile bush fire into something productive for everyone.
 
“A few centuries ago” was also xian rule which is where these trends came from. If you diddle kids you weren’t seen as masculine or part of the club either so I’d be careful trying to hitch yourself to this line of thinking especially with regards to a society that wasn’t even ruled by us goyim.
 
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
 
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at getting The Ordinary products for a skincare routine. If I had lots of disposable money then I would have fun experimenting with expensive product lines.

I don't know if he's jewish or not, but you could look into Augustinus Bader's products.

For a lot of things I just stick to P&G brands.
 
I remembered this from a long time ago, but high heels originated from butchers in Ancient Egypt so that they could walk over the blood of dead animals. They were also common among men & women but modern culture has appropriated the wear for women.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/10/02/high-heels-ancient-history-egyptian-butchers-wore-walk-blood-death-animals/?firefox=1

In ancient Egypt people, from the lower class usually walked and worked barefoot, while there are murals from 3500 B.C depicting the higher class wearing early versions of high heeled shoes.

The shoes, made from flexible leather pieces held together with lacing, were designed to resemble the symbol “Ankh” – the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph which represents the concept of life.

Both females and males from the upper class wore high heeled shoes only for ceremonial purposes. However, history records show that butchers in ancient Egypt wore high heels as well, but not as a class statement or for ceremonial purposes, but for a practical reason.

Egyptian butchers wore high-heeled shoes in order to walk above the blood of the slaughtered death animals.

In the Middle East, high heels were also perceived as an object of functionality. Persian horse riders wore high heels because they helped hold the foot in stirrups and keep them still when they needed to stand up and shoot arrows. This kind of footwear is shown on a 9th-cenutry ceramic bowl from Persia.

Ancient Roman and Greeks, both men and women, wore platform sandals called Kothorni or buskins, but unlike Persian horse riders or Egyptian butchers, high heels were worn to separate the social classes.

In ancient Rome, where prostitution was legal, high heels were used to identify those within the trade to clients.
Click to expand...
 
jrvan said:
Personally I abhor high heels as well as heeled shoes of any kind. I believe the heeled shoe was an invention of the jew to ruin our feet. Our ancestors prior to that technology's invention never had it nor imagined of any need for it. Not in Rome, not in Scandinavia, not in Egypt nor any other part of Africa, not anywhere in Asia or elsewhere. The footwear was always as flat as a Roman leather sandal even in the North. Why? Probably because our natural foot has no need for so much support. The ancients would have looked at an idea like the high heel and probably laughed at it because they would have understood that the foot would atrophy if the shoe does all the work for it. Our bodies weren't designed as a masterpiece of nature to just not be used. Every part of our bodies has a purpose, and the heeled shoe denies the purpose of the foot's design.

I know I said I would give you the last word, but I changed my mind. I decided to turn your juvenile bush fire into something productive for everyone.
Click to expand...

Are you not aware Heels origin is with horseback riding? They were made to ensure cavalry wouldn't get knocked off their stirrups. Their invention was for war, not because of jews. Whether they had a hand in making normal women wear it later, is another question entirely. But Heels have been around for this purpose since the Persians at least, but always reserved for the cavalry .
 
SleepingWolf said:
jrvan said:
Personally I abhor high heels as well as heeled shoes of any kind. I believe the heeled shoe was an invention of the jew to ruin our feet. Our ancestors prior to that technology's invention never had it nor imagined of any need for it. Not in Rome, not in Scandinavia, not in Egypt nor any other part of Africa, not anywhere in Asia or elsewhere. The footwear was always as flat as a Roman leather sandal even in the North. Why? Probably because our natural foot has no need for so much support. The ancients would have looked at an idea like the high heel and probably laughed at it because they would have understood that the foot would atrophy if the shoe does all the work for it. Our bodies weren't designed as a masterpiece of nature to just not be used. Every part of our bodies has a purpose, and the heeled shoe denies the purpose of the foot's design.

I know I said I would give you the last word, but I changed my mind. I decided to turn your juvenile bush fire into something productive for everyone.
Click to expand...

Are you not aware Heels origin is with horseback riding? They were made to ensure cavalry wouldn't get knocked off their stirrups. Their invention was for war, not because of jews. Whether they had a hand in making normal women wear it later, is another question entirely. But Heels have been around for this purpose since the Persians at least, but always reserved for the cavalry .
Click to expand...

Interesting. I suppose I can discard my assumptions then. I still think it's a crime to make them part of the fashion world, personally.
 
The Outlaw Torn said:
“A few centuries ago” was also xian rule which is where these trends came from. If you diddle kids you weren’t seen as masculine or part of the club either so I’d be careful trying to hitch yourself to this line of thinking especially with regards to a society that wasn’t even ruled by us goyim.
Click to expand...

If that's not far enough back for you then take a look at Ancient Greek and Roman clothing. The male clothing of those Pagan societies would be considered effeminate by today's zeitgeist.

Why are you referring to gentiles as goyim?
 
jrvan said:
Jack said:
Source ?
Click to expand...

No source. Pure speculation.
Click to expand...
So you're telling men that wearing eyeliner and makeup like a transvestite is masculine and it's completely in your head ? Nice job.

All things are not going to be connected to masculinity. Trying to link everything back to masculinity in a social sense is weird and reeks of identity issues.

Yes there have been an extremely small minority of men who might have wore makeup like transvestites or might actually have been transvestites. So what ?
 
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...
I believe that skin products are best when home made, too much shit in the ordinary ones. My face was as smooth as the bum of a toddler when I used coffee mixed with honey on it.
I only have 1 watch and I never use it so I don't consider buying any others. I prefer buying clothes and shoes, the elegant type, as I'm not the guy you will ever see in the street dressed casually.
 
About 100 years or so ago, and before, blue was for Girls and pink was for Boys. Oh, the shock, horror!

We should do a study. Of course, it would be biased because of any reincarnated Souls which have preferences already, but put a bunch of Children in a playroom with "Boy" toys and "Girl" toys. Oh, wait - this has been done before, including on monkeys. I would say try similar things with "Boy" products and clothes, and "Girl" products and clothes, but some people would get upset about that. The important point would be to not influence the Children, not telling them this is for Boys or that is for Girls. Let innocence and curiosity (and past-life preferences) take over, and see what happens. Let's not do the poor David Reimer fuck-up, though.
 
FancyMancy said:
About 100 years or so ago, and before, blue was for Girls and pink was for Boys. Oh, the shock, horror!

We should do a study. Of course, it would be biased because of any reincarnated Souls which have preferences already, but put a bunch of Children in a playroom with "Boy" toys and "Girl" toys. Oh, wait - this has been done before, including on monkeys. I would say try similar things with "Boy" products and clothes, and "Girl" products and clothes, but some people would get upset about that. The important point would be to not influence the Children, not telling them this is for Boys or that is for Girls. Let innocence and curiosity (and past-life preferences) take over, and see what happens. Let's not do the poor David Reimer fuck-up, though.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that the thing about mixing up the pink/blue gender color coding was a theory or rumor without any basis in history. I don't know the truth of the matter.

I do know for a fact though that boys used to wear dresses just like the girls. The parents back then did this because it was cheaper, and the boy wouldn't have his own gendered garments until he was older.

I agree with you though on the points you are making. Conceptions of gender are often influenced through tradition, and the only tradition and history that most of humanity has known for many centuries is unfortunately xianity with even their Pagan holidays tainted by it. The modern ideas of what a man is and what is manly/male are as stupid as the factory clone consumerist barbie ideas of what women are, and all these corrupted ideas about the genders in the minds of humans are informed by the jews just like they have been ever since we lost our Pagan cultures.

As for fashion, it changes all the time through the ages. Like I keep telling people, men still wear makeup to this day. News reporters and movie actors wear it all the time, and men in formal occasions sometimes wear it. Pirates wore it. Gentlemen wore it. Egyptians wore eyeliner to protect their eyes from the sun. Makeup was always a thing for both men and women.

Male K-pop singers wear makeup, and women all around the world are infatuated with them. The K-pop stars get way more access to women than these tough gruff wrangler types that so many brainwashed idiots associate with the image of a "man." I wonder why? Oh maybe because these tough gruff wranglers look like shit due to not taking care of themselves. That's another jewish idea - that it's manly to not take care of our bodies and our appearance. It's called being lazy and not valuing your own body. Letting your body rot and decay while you drink whisky and daydream about being a cool skilled rogue like Han Solo is not manly.

A lot of men also have competing images of what is manly because they can't make up their minds between the space wrangler Han Solo and the suave British spy James Bond. Both of them are jewish characters. Han Solo sided with marxists and became a renegade, and that's why he was hiding out in some desert shit hole looking for work hunting other degenerates like himself - because he couldn't find honest work anywhere else in the freaking galaxy. :lol:
James Bond works with the Mossad, and here is what his own author had to say about him:
"I wanted the simplest, dullest, plainest-sounding name I could find, 'James Bond' was much better than something more interesting, like 'Peregrine Carruthers'. Exotic things would happen to and around him, but he would be a neutral figure—an anonymous, blunt instrument wielded by a government department."
Click to expand...
How manly.

Or we can all just follow the easiest manly model of perfection prescribed to us by jews, and it's so easy to achieve - all we have to do is shut off our emotions and shun the feminine side of our souls which will make us crave power after denying our own innate power. Excellent idea... that'll show those "dumb" sexy broads who the real men are. Because hating females and emotions is super duper attractive. LMAO

No wonder women get sick of us and date girls. She "turned lesbian" on you for a reason, boys.
 
This is irrelevant to this topic in general, but partially relevant to my last comment.

A good rule of thumb for guys:
if you wouldn't treat your mother a certain way then don't treat your girlfriend that way.

Be as sweet on her as you would your own mother on mother's day, but all the time. Forget all of the pop psychology and PUA nonsense, and just don't be a dick to her. She will love you for it. If the relationship fails even though you were a proper human being then it probably means she has her own issues, and it doesn't have anything to do with you as a man. Forgive her as well for being a human in a jewish society and being influenced by jewish ideas. Females are humans who make mistakes too just like males, no matter how perfect the girl looks - so don't hold her to impossible standards that you wouldn't hold yourself to.
 
Jack said:
jrvan said:
Jack said:
Source ?
Click to expand...

No source. Pure speculation.
Click to expand...
So you're telling men that wearing eyeliner and makeup like a transvestite is masculine and it's completely in your head ? Nice job.

All things are not going to be connected to masculinity. Trying to link everything back to masculinity in a social sense is weird and reeks of identity issues.

Yes there have been an extremely small minority of men who might have wore makeup like transvestites or might actually have been transvestites. So what ?
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohl_(cosmetics)
Kohl was originally used as protection against eye ailments. There was also a belief that darkening around the eyes would protect one from the harsh rays of the sun. Galena eye paint (later termed Kohl in Arabic from the Akkadian word for the cosmetic) was widely applied in Ancient Egypt. Upper eyelids were painted black and lower ones were colored green, as depicted in ancient texts that describe the use of both black galena and green malachite. Ancient graves from the pre-historic Tasian culture point to the early application of galena in Egypt, a custom stretching from as old as the Badarian period through to Greco-Roman era.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're the one who is weird and reeks of identity issues.
 
It's a bit hard to not use skincare products when you do need a lot of knowledge, resources and - sometimes - money to make your own products.

I'm a female but I've been into skincare for a few years and I have managed to get rid of very severe acne on my own. It was a hard journey, but I've come to know a few things when it comes to taking care of your face.

I was thinking about making a post later on - but what I can say about physical scrubs is that you should avoid them if you have acne or a sensitive skin, as they can irritate the skin. I also recommend you to avoid products from brands such as Clean&Clear and St. Ives since they have lots of fragrance and ingredients that will damage your skin in the long-term, even if you get results now.

As a cleanser I personally use a PureActive one based on natural ingredients from Garnier - it's good for oily skin. I also use a CeraVe cleanser.

If you want something that's completely natural for cleansing the skin, there is the black African soap. I've also found a nice brand that makes natural soap out of goat milk, certain plans and essential oils.

For moisturizers, if you want something 100% natural I would recommend aloe vera gel. It does wonder on my skin. The only downside is that it might not be moisturizing enough if you have a dry skin. I've heard some stuff about coconut oil, but it can clog the pores. Shea butter also seems to be a good choice. There is also hyaluronic acid which you can get in moisturizers or as a serum - if you use a product that's rich in this acid, the best is to apply it on damp skin as it locks in moisture.

At the moment, I'm trying out a Garnier moisturizing gel cream with hyaluronic acid. Also tried one from Revox but it contains soy oil which clogs my pores and leaves my skin feeling oily, so I turned that one into a hand cream.

For treating skin problems naturally, I recommend essential oils. I've tried almost everything that can be found in the pharmacies or by the big brands regarding acne. Nothing worked. Tea tree oil? It completely got rid of my acne. Now I only have some breakouts depending on my menstrual cycle or on my eating habits.

Essential oils are cheap and very effective when used properly. You can even make a natural toner using them - I have one made out of aloe vera gel, water, lavender and rosemary essential oils - or add a few drops to your moisturizer. In time, you'll see a significant difference.

I would give a list with the best essential oils and what benefits they have, but I don't have the time at the moment.

Some can also be used with treating scalp or hair problems.
 
Jack said:
jrvan said:
Jack said:
Source ?
Click to expand...

No source. Pure speculation.
Click to expand...
So you're telling men that wearing eyeliner and makeup like a transvestite is masculine and it's completely in your head ? Nice job.

All things are not going to be connected to masculinity. Trying to link everything back to masculinity in a social sense is weird and reeks of identity issues.

Yes there have been an extremely small minority of men who might have wore makeup like transvestites or might actually have been transvestites. So what ?
Click to expand...

If you meant "source" as in where the info came from regarding the dress codes (not jrvan's personal thoughts on "screw the modern idea of masculinity"), it came from me as someone who actively studies historical dress.

A man wearing lace and bows in their hair today would be considered "crossdressing" for lack of a better word or "girly" (negative connotation there)... yet, men had no shame in wearing lace for their cuffs, collars, and shirts if they so desired or a bow in their styled hair not that long ago in history. What would be considered a "dress" by today's eye, were commonly worn by men in many cultures across history - I can't remember the proper term but imagine a tunic that's lengthened to the thighs or knees without trousers.

Men once took pride in wig wearing as a symbol of status, and also because hair washing was not routinely available as it is now.

Seems jrvan covered the rest already.
 
Specter said:
I remembered this from a long time ago, but high heels originated from butchers in Ancient Egypt so that they could walk over the blood of dead animals. They were also common among men & women but modern culture has appropriated the wear for women.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/10/02/high-heels-ancient-history-egyptian-butchers-wore-walk-blood-death-animals/?firefox=1

In ancient Egypt people, from the lower class usually walked and worked barefoot, while there are murals from 3500 B.C depicting the higher class wearing early versions of high heeled shoes.

The shoes, made from flexible leather pieces held together with lacing, were designed to resemble the symbol “Ankh” – the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph which represents the concept of life.

Both females and males from the upper class wore high heeled shoes only for ceremonial purposes. However, history records show that butchers in ancient Egypt wore high heels as well, but not as a class statement or for ceremonial purposes, but for a practical reason.

Egyptian butchers wore high-heeled shoes in order to walk above the blood of the slaughtered death animals.

In the Middle East, high heels were also perceived as an object of functionality. Persian horse riders wore high heels because they helped hold the foot in stirrups and keep them still when they needed to stand up and shoot arrows. This kind of footwear is shown on a 9th-cenutry ceramic bowl from Persia.

Ancient Roman and Greeks, both men and women, wore platform sandals called Kothorni or buskins, but unlike Persian horse riders or Egyptian butchers, high heels were worn to separate the social classes.

In ancient Rome, where prostitution was legal, high heels were used to identify those within the trade to clients.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the share. I imagine that high heels in Ancient Egypt were a lot more practical and functional for the foot than they are today. Most shoes made today don't even conform to the foot's natural shape.

Something like the Japanese Geta don't seem too bad, and similarly they are used for formal occasions and for avoiding certain terrains.
 
jrvan said:
SleepingWolf said:
jrvan said:
Personally I abhor high heels as well as heeled shoes of any kind. I believe the heeled shoe was an invention of the jew to ruin our feet. Our ancestors prior to that technology's invention never had it nor imagined of any need for it. Not in Rome, not in Scandinavia, not in Egypt nor any other part of Africa, not anywhere in Asia or elsewhere. The footwear was always as flat as a Roman leather sandal even in the North. Why? Probably because our natural foot has no need for so much support. The ancients would have looked at an idea like the high heel and probably laughed at it because they would have understood that the foot would atrophy if the shoe does all the work for it. Our bodies weren't designed as a masterpiece of nature to just not be used. Every part of our bodies has a purpose, and the heeled shoe denies the purpose of the foot's design.

I know I said I would give you the last word, but I changed my mind. I decided to turn your juvenile bush fire into something productive for everyone.
Click to expand...

Are you not aware Heels origin is with horseback riding? They were made to ensure cavalry wouldn't get knocked off their stirrups. Their invention was for war, not because of jews. Whether they had a hand in making normal women wear it later, is another question entirely. But Heels have been around for this purpose since the Persians at least, but always reserved for the cavalry .
Click to expand...

Interesting. I suppose I can discard my assumptions then. I still think it's a crime to make them part of the fashion world, personally.
Click to expand...

Can't blame him. Modern heeled shoes are not healthy at all, neither is the shape of the toe of modern shoes, so it sets a bad taste on the idea of heeled shoes as a whole, since almost none of them - unless you're lucky to find a good brand - are practical or healthy for daily wear and walking in. If you look back through a few decades ago, there was a shoe style called "the walking shoe" in which the heel of the shoe was centered in the middle of the heel with a wide base for proper support when walking and not very high off the ground. Unlike modern typical heels where the heel is centered more towards the back of the heel with a thinner base and ridiculous heights for walking in.

Over support of the foot in sneakers and such, just like with the effects of a cast, weakens the foot muscles and tendons making the foot and lower body prone to injury.

Pointed toe shoes are very bad for the structure of the foot. It can cause health problems with balance, poor ventilation between the toes, and rubbing of the skin, as the foot ends up conforming to the shape of the shoe it's put into. Though at the time of their creation it was "fashionable" to wear pointed shoes.

The ancients had a much better understanding of making clothing and shoe wear practical without completely sacrificing comfort and health.
 
There is actually a line in the jewish bible where the jewish "god" says that any man who wears the garments of a woman is an abomination in his eyes. Now I wonder why something like that is in there... :idea:
 
Jack said:
Source ?
Click to expand...

a1455dde665b3a2de648ba0bb5298f59186bcb0508704d791ae94e83195961a4_1.jpg
 
SleepingWolf said:
jrvan said:
Personally I abhor high heels as well as heeled shoes of any kind. I believe the heeled shoe was an invention of the jew to ruin our feet. Our ancestors prior to that technology's invention never had it nor imagined of any need for it. Not in Rome, not in Scandinavia, not in Egypt nor any other part of Africa, not anywhere in Asia or elsewhere. The footwear was always as flat as a Roman leather sandal even in the North. Why? Probably because our natural foot has no need for so much support. The ancients would have looked at an idea like the high heel and probably laughed at it because they would have understood that the foot would atrophy if the shoe does all the work for it. Our bodies weren't designed as a masterpiece of nature to just not be used. Every part of our bodies has a purpose, and the heeled shoe denies the purpose of the foot's design.

I know I said I would give you the last word, but I changed my mind. I decided to turn your juvenile bush fire into something productive for everyone.
Click to expand...

Are you not aware Heels origin is with horseback riding? They were made to ensure cavalry wouldn't get knocked off their stirrups. Their invention was for war, not because of jews. Whether they had a hand in making normal women wear it later, is another question entirely. But Heels have been around for this purpose since the Persians at least, but always reserved for the cavalry .
Click to expand...
Heels make your butt stick out, advertising sexual availability. The higher the heel, the greater the effect. They also show off the soles/arches and feet, which symbolize submission & intimacy(effeminate traits) and build further on sex appeal. It's only a given that they would be womens' wear. It's only a coincidence that they would have use for horseback riding, which women also tend to be more interested in than men.

Sandals were worn around the mediterranean because it gets hot as hell and the level of activity commoners did throughout the day would require something with great ventilation for comfort. They didn't have methods and materials to make durable and breathable shoes like we have today. However, they did have closed-toe shoes. In the frozen wastes of the north, you would not have your toes and feet for very long if you only had sandals.

The only way "heels" can be masculine as a fashion item is if the heel is very thick and it's a closed shoe, more like a boot.

Russet-Marching-Shoe-3_large.jpg


Otzi the iceman wore shoes. His body is over 5000 years old and was found near Italy.

chaussure-en-cuir-otzi-paleosite.jpg

sxsxgqox.jpg
 
jrvan said:
The Outlaw Torn said:
“A few centuries ago” was also xian rule which is where these trends came from. If you diddle kids you weren’t seen as masculine or part of the club either so I’d be careful trying to hitch yourself to this line of thinking especially with regards to a society that wasn’t even ruled by us goyim.
Click to expand...

If that's not far enough back for you then take a look at Ancient Greek and Roman clothing. The male clothing of those Pagan societies would be considered effeminate by today's zeitgeist.

Why are you referring to gentiles as goyim?
Click to expand...

Such as?
 
jrvan said:
I do know for a fact though that boys used to wear dresses just like the girls. The parents back then did this because it was cheaper, and the boy wouldn't have his own gendered garments until he was older.

As for fashion, it changes all the time through the ages. Like I keep telling people, men still wear makeup to this day. News reporters and movie actors wear it all the time, and men in formal occasions sometimes wear it. Pirates wore it. Gentlemen wore it. Egyptians wore eyeliner to protect their eyes from the sun. Makeup was always a thing for both men and women.

No wonder women get sick of us and date girls. She "turned lesbian" on you for a reason, boys.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should lay off the sissy hypnosis.
 
Aquarius said:
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...
I believe that skin products are best when home made, too much shit in the ordinary ones. My face was as smooth as the bum of a toddler when I used coffee mixed with honey on it.
I only have 1 watch and I never use it so I don't consider buying any others. I prefer buying clothes and shoes, the elegant type, as I'm not the guy you will ever see in the street dressed casually.
Click to expand...

That's nice and interesting. I am opposite, a lot of accessories and the most basic clothing ever. Never any brands or name of brands on the clothes. I hate wearing that, only plain white or black shirts, the simplest black or white jeans as well (if they are white I need the best quality one as usually white color needs proper quality) and the only clothing which can be expensive are the jackets for me. I have a preferred leather jacket, that is quite the love for me, but also different jackets, that I think really express my style or mood, not shoes or anything else.

Also sneakers and shoes, I swear I never understood, I buy the most basic ones. I don't get the hype about them same as football, never interested in. If it is a pleasing form, black or white, be it is the cheapest shit ever, I buy it and wear it, extremely comfortable with that.

About elegant clothing, I want to buy a tailored suit soon, just to have it. When I was young I detested such things, but now I do really appreciate how it makes me feel and how it fits me. I was at court meetings and since then I swore to buy something that will make me happy and be beautifully aggressive among those surroundings.

Also when I was a teen I would wear slim jeans, now I cringe at the thought, I had my taste do 180 degrees. I do wear for a couple of years only comfortable and standard jeans, and my body can breathe.

I have it in my chart, to me it is very hard, to not spend all of my money on beauty products, art or women. Obsessed. I also like to be persuaded to buy something, like I am very provocative to sellers when they try to advertise to me something. I'm begging to make me want to buy something only to do the job myself at the end.

I also consider the phone an accessory as well, I had for years a bb Porsche design, and want to go again with old school phones. No social media no nothing, I can do that for business on laptop.
 
jrvan said:
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at getting The Ordinary products for a skincare routine. If I had lots of disposable money then I would have fun experimenting with expensive product lines.

I don't know if he's jewish or not, but you could look into Augustinus Bader's products.

For a lot of things I just stick to P&G brands.
Click to expand...

Man that is really expensive, but I will try it. Time to make a call to my sugar mommy.
 
jrvan said:
Interesting. I suppose I can discard my assumptions then. I still think it's a crime to make them part of the fashion world, personally.
Click to expand...

I would certainly not disagree, but can't say they don't look appealing on some girls. But asking any girl to suffer that much for beauty is definitely too far.
 
NakedPluto said:
Aquarius said:
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...
I believe that skin products are best when home made, too much shit in the ordinary ones. My face was as smooth as the bum of a toddler when I used coffee mixed with honey on it.
I only have 1 watch and I never use it so I don't consider buying any others. I prefer buying clothes and shoes, the elegant type, as I'm not the guy you will ever see in the street dressed casually.
Click to expand...

That's nice and interesting. I am opposite, a lot of accessories and the most basic clothing ever. Never any brands or name of brands on the clothes. I hate wearing that, only plain white or black shirts, the simplest black or white jeans as well (if they are white I need the best quality one as usually white color needs proper quality) and the only clothing which can be expensive are the jackets for me. I have a preferred leather jacket, that is quite the love for me, but also different jackets, that I think really express my style or mood, not shoes or anything else.

Also sneakers and shoes, I swear I never understood, I buy the most basic ones. I don't get the hype about them same as football, never interested in. If it is a pleasing form, black or white, be it is the cheapest shit ever, I buy it and wear it, extremely comfortable with that.

About elegant clothing, I want to buy a tailored suit soon, just to have it. When I was young I detested such things, but now I do really appreciate how it makes me feel and how it fits me. I was at court meetings and since then I swore to buy something that will make me happy and be beautifully aggressive among those surroundings.

Also when I was a teen I would wear slim jeans, now I cringe at the thought, I had my taste do 180 degrees. I do wear for a couple of years only comfortable and standard jeans, and my body can breathe.

I have it in my chart, to me it is very hard, to not spend all of my money on beauty products, art or women. Obsessed. I also like to be persuaded to buy something, like I am very provocative to sellers when they try to advertise to me something. I'm begging to make me want to buy something only to do the job myself at the end.

I also consider the phone an accessory as well, I had for years a bb Porsche design, and want to go again with old school phones. No social media no nothing, I can do that for business on laptop.
Click to expand...
I totally get the feeling you felt in the suit, that's how I dress nearly everyday, minus the tie, but I want to get around using that too. It feels overwhelming at first, you feel people's eyes on you, but the more annoying aspect are the people around you who are not used to changes, you'll feel more confident in a way that is intoxicating(at least it was for me at the beginning), now I'm just used to it. You'll shine in the eyes of people, they look at you differently, you're not the casual guy on the street, you're memorable, especially if you're in the USA as people dress like shit over there. I got used to dressing like that in high school, where everybody dressed like teenagers(of course, it's a highschool! lol), sometimes I was confused for a teacher.
This
9e918b1eb00c04740e1ea348ed6fae4e.jpg

VS this
110912382-portrait-of-a-handsome-young-casual-guy-posing-on-street-background-.jpg


Also, if you go in luxury clothing shops(not supreme or other bullshit) but where they sell elegant clothing, that's what you're looking for if you like that feeling of getting a great customer treatment.

As for minimalistic phones, I'd like one too, but I can't justify the expense when I have a perfectly working phone already. Also, whatsapp, does it have it? Nobody here uses normal messages anymore, just whatsapp.
 
NakedPluto said:
Aquarius said:
NakedPluto said:
Heels as heels. But let's talk about men care products.

What do you guys use? I use Rituals of Jing products lately for my face, yet I do not like them so much. Been trying to find a godly moisturizer that I can use for tattoos as well but I'm left without choices and too many products to experiment with.

When I was a teen I would do scrubs and how are they named and what not, had a face envied by all of the girls. Now I do not use such things anymore as also don't see a need for.

A coffee scrub once in 3 months or a mask. Mostly to make the beard manageable.

I am also obsessed with perfumes, last one I got was Prada Luna Rossa, which I enjoy yet it is too sweet for me. I like winter perfumes, absolutely with leather and petrol notes. My preferred combination would be a white Lacoste with black Armani. I tried all of the perfumes for men I think, I like only a very few. Combining them is what gets me going, never on their own.

There was a Japanese perfume I don't remember and find the name again, absolutely the greatest aggressive smell ever, with a dragon on it.

About these kind of things, I will be honest, I spend and am very tempted to buy very expensive care products. It is in my chart as well, I do have obsessive rituals of taking care of myself since I was a kid. The same with anything of accessories. I have 14 watches which some, are very expensive yet rarely use them. Sunglasses as well. But I absolutely love all of them.

I want to hear about others too.
Click to expand...
I believe that skin products are best when home made, too much shit in the ordinary ones. My face was as smooth as the bum of a toddler when I used coffee mixed with honey on it.
I only have 1 watch and I never use it so I don't consider buying any others. I prefer buying clothes and shoes, the elegant type, as I'm not the guy you will ever see in the street dressed casually.
Click to expand...

That's nice and interesting. I am opposite, a lot of accessories and the most basic clothing ever. Never any brands or name of brands on the clothes. I hate wearing that, only plain white or black shirts, the simplest black or white jeans as well (if they are white I need the best quality one as usually white color needs proper quality) and the only clothing which can be expensive are the jackets for me. I have a preferred leather jacket, that is quite the love for me, but also different jackets, that I think really express my style or mood, not shoes or anything else.

Also sneakers and shoes, I swear I never understood, I buy the most basic ones. I don't get the hype about them same as football, never interested in. If it is a pleasing form, black or white, be it is the cheapest shit ever, I buy it and wear it, extremely comfortable with that.

About elegant clothing, I want to buy a tailored suit soon, just to have it. When I was young I detested such things, but now I do really appreciate how it makes me feel and how it fits me. I was at court meetings and since then I swore to buy something that will make me happy and be beautifully aggressive among those surroundings.

Also when I was a teen I would wear slim jeans, now I cringe at the thought, I had my taste do 180 degrees. I do wear for a couple of years only comfortable and standard jeans, and my body can breathe.

I have it in my chart, to me it is very hard, to not spend all of my money on beauty products, art or women. Obsessed. I also like to be persuaded to buy something, like I am very provocative to sellers when they try to advertise to me something. I'm begging to make me want to buy something only to do the job myself at the end.

I also consider the phone an accessory as well, I had for years a bb Porsche design, and want to go again with old school phones. No social media no nothing, I can do that for business on laptop.
Click to expand...

I'm itching to try things like full grain leather pants and jacket. I swore to never go back to jeans, and I only wear cheap slacks instead as a temporary alternative (I rarely wear those either). I cannot feel comfortable in jeans anymore, I just can't. I might try vintage trousers and waistcoat at some point, and I also thought about giving harem pants a chance to see how they feel. Also maybe capris if they are made with the right material and worn with long socks, and yoga pants. I'm also the same in that I want to have at least one nice suit. Blazer - shirt - trousers is basically the evolution of the waistcoat, linen shirt, and trousers.

Tabby is teaching me basic sewing when we have time for it, and one day I want to make my own embroidered sweater.

As an idea for accessories, you could try upping your belt game. You could also try doing expensive custom embroidery on your jackets - it's kind of like a tattoo for your clothes in a way to give them a personalized touch. You can easily find many examples of embroidered leather jackets for eye candy, they look really boss.
 
jrvan said:
FancyMancy said:
About 100 years or so ago, and before, blue was for Girls and pink was for Boys. Oh, the shock, horror!

We should do a study. Of course, it would be biased because of any reincarnated Souls which have preferences already, but put a bunch of Children in a playroom with "Boy" toys and "Girl" toys. Oh, wait - this has been done before, including on monkeys. I would say try similar things with "Boy" products and clothes, and "Girl" products and clothes, but some people would get upset about that. The important point would be to not influence the Children, not telling them this is for Boys or that is for Girls. Let innocence and curiosity (and past-life preferences) take over, and see what happens. Let's not do the poor David Reimer fuck-up, though.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that the thing about mixing up the pink/blue gender color coding was a theory or rumor without any basis in history. I don't know the truth of the matter.

I do know for a fact though that boys used to wear dresses just like the girls. The parents back then did this because it was cheaper, and the boy wouldn't have his own gendered garments until he was older.

I agree with you though on the points you are making. Conceptions of gender are often influenced through tradition, and the only tradition and history that most of humanity has known for many centuries is unfortunately xianity with even their Pagan holidays tainted by it. The modern ideas of what a man is and what is manly/male are as stupid as the factory clone consumerist barbie ideas of what women are, and all these corrupted ideas about the genders in the minds of humans are informed by the jews just like they have been ever since we lost our Pagan cultures.

As for fashion, it changes all the time through the ages. Like I keep telling people, men still wear makeup to this day. News reporters and movie actors wear it all the time, and men in formal occasions sometimes wear it. Pirates wore it. Gentlemen wore it. Egyptians wore eyeliner to protect their eyes from the sun. Makeup was always a thing for both men and women.

Male K-pop singers wear makeup, and women all around the world are infatuated with them. The K-pop stars get way more access to women than these tough gruff wrangler types that so many brainwashed idiots associate with the image of a "man." I wonder why? Oh maybe because these tough gruff wranglers look like shit due to not taking care of themselves. That's another jewish idea - that it's manly to not take care of our bodies and our appearance. It's called being lazy and not valuing your own body. Letting your body rot and decay while you drink whisky and daydream about being a cool skilled rogue like Han Solo is not manly.

A lot of men also have competing images of what is manly because they can't make up their minds between the space wrangler Han Solo and the suave British spy James Bond. Both of them are jewish characters. Han Solo sided with marxists and became a renegade, and that's why he was hiding out in some desert shit hole looking for work hunting other degenerates like himself - because he couldn't find honest work anywhere else in the freaking galaxy. :lol:
James Bond works with the Mossad, and here is what his own author had to say about him:
"I wanted the simplest, dullest, plainest-sounding name I could find, 'James Bond' was much better than something more interesting, like 'Peregrine Carruthers'. Exotic things would happen to and around him, but he would be a neutral figure—an anonymous, blunt instrument wielded by a government department."
Click to expand...
How manly.

Or we can all just follow the easiest manly model of perfection prescribed to us by jews, and it's so easy to achieve - all we have to do is shut off our emotions and shun the feminine side of our souls which will make us crave power after denying our own innate power. Excellent idea... that'll show those "dumb" sexy broads who the real men are. Because hating females and emotions is super duper attractive. LMAO

No wonder women get sick of us and date girls. She "turned lesbian" on you for a reason, boys.
Click to expand...

I read this too, years ago.
Looking back into history, and also nowadays, its still used in some parts of asia, blue for women and pink for boys. Why?
Yin-yang.
Yin is cold, dark, feminine
Yang is warm, light, masculine.

Blue is a cold color.
Red is a warm color. Basicly they matched the color to the dominant nature.

Also Im reading along because I am interested, but I won't reply om a personal lvl as to respect your space. I just wanted to add this tadbit of info in here ...
 
I would love to just get me all dollied up, make up, glitter, latex dress, thigh high boots, long inches wig with a lace front, and just be scandalous.
 
tabby said:
Jack said:
jrvan said:
No source. Pure speculation.
Click to expand...
So you're telling men that wearing eyeliner and makeup like a transvestite is masculine and it's completely in your head ? Nice job.

All things are not going to be connected to masculinity. Trying to link everything back to masculinity in a social sense is weird and reeks of identity issues.

Yes there have been an extremely small minority of men who might have wore makeup like transvestites or might actually have been transvestites. So what ?
Click to expand...

If you meant "source" as in where the info came from regarding the dress codes (not jrvan's personal thoughts on "screw the modern idea of masculinity"), it came from me as someone who actively studies historical dress.

A man wearing lace and bows in their hair today would be considered "crossdressing" for lack of a better word or "girly" (negative connotation there)... yet, men had no shame in wearing lace for their cuffs, collars, and shirts if they so desired or a bow in their styled hair not that long ago in history. What would be considered a "dress" by today's eye, were commonly worn by men in many cultures across history - I can't remember the proper term but imagine a tunic that's lengthened to the thighs or knees without trousers.

Men once took pride in wig wearing as a symbol of status, and also because hair washing was not routinely available as it is now.

Seems jrvan covered the rest already.
Click to expand...
Did those men copy the women at that time or was it specifically their fashion at that time ?
 
ForVery said:
jrvan said:
Jack said:
Source ?
Click to expand...

No source. Pure speculation.
Click to expand...
It's clear that Jack is looking for a fight.
Click to expand...

He's always looking for a fight with me. He most likely has his Mercury in Leo, and I crushed his stupid little pride by humiliating him time and time again (which wasn't hard to do, and he basically did it himself - I just pointed out his stupidity and made it obvious for others who have less insight) so now he can never let it go and is on a mission to destroy me. He treats these forums like his personal playground and drama stage when he is bored, and everyone else gets tormented for it. He antagonized women for years just to get a rise out of them before I put a stop to it. He definitely does NOT believe that we are all family here, and he will never treat us as such.

Jack probably also has his Venus in Scorpio. What an annoying guy.
 
jrvan said:
He's always looking for a fight with me. He most likely has his Mercury in Leo, and I crushed his stupid little pride by humiliating him time and time again (which wasn't hard to do, and he basically did it himself - I just pointed out his stupidity and made it obvious for others who have less insight) so now he can never let it go and is on a mission to destroy me. He treats these forums like his personal playground and drama stage when he is bored, and everyone else gets tormented for it. He antagonized women for years just to get a rise out of them before I put a stop to it. He definitely does NOT believe that we are all family here, and he will never treat us as such.

Jack probably also has his Venus in Scorpio. What an annoying guy.
Click to expand...

The placements you mentioned, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Whether it manifests in annoying ways depends on the person in question, how they handle their astrology, how they express their traits and inheritance as well as your synastry with them.

It is foolish to look at a placement and determine based on a single placement alone it must be something annoying or problematic. It doesn't work like that.

One Scoprio in Venus will be vastly different from another, same as a Mercury in Leo.
 
VoiceofEnki said:
jrvan said:
He's always looking for a fight with me. He most likely has his Mercury in Leo, and I crushed his stupid little pride by humiliating him time and time again (which wasn't hard to do, and he basically did it himself - I just pointed out his stupidity and made it obvious for others who have less insight) so now he can never let it go and is on a mission to destroy me. He treats these forums like his personal playground and drama stage when he is bored, and everyone else gets tormented for it. He antagonized women for years just to get a rise out of them before I put a stop to it. He definitely does NOT believe that we are all family here, and he will never treat us as such.

Jack probably also has his Venus in Scorpio. What an annoying guy.
Click to expand...

The placements you mentioned, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Whether it manifests in annoying ways depends on the person in question, how they handle their astrology, how they express their traits and inheritance as well as your synastry with them.

It is foolish to look at a placement and determine based on a single placement alone it must be something annoying or problematic. It doesn't work like that.

One Scoprio in Venus will be vastly different from another, same as a Mercury in Leo.
Click to expand...

I know, brother. Others have told me that it's merely a clash of personalities and energies between us, and I'm inclined to agree. In the objective sense, there is nothing wrong with these placements. However, I'm allowed to dislike people with certain placements on a personal level. I'm also fully aware that there are many people with different placements who would hate interacting with people who have my placements.

Another example: I have trouble being around people with too much air in their charts because I hardly have any in mine, and I have a lot of earth. I don't like to talk more than I find necessary, and ironically I am not very emotionally expressive a lot of the time which contradicts what Jack said about me being over emotional. My emotional expression is actually very limited despite having lots of water. Tabby sees this all the time in the difference between how I react to her artistic projects with my level of excitement, and how someone else reacts. Compared to me, their visual expression is like an excited golden retriever even though it's pretty standard to show that much excitement.

In any case, it's just my opinions and feelings towards those placements, and that's all.
 
VoiceofEnki said:
jrvan said:
He's always looking for a fight with me. He most likely has his Mercury in Leo, and I crushed his stupid little pride by humiliating him time and time again (which wasn't hard to do, and he basically did it himself - I just pointed out his stupidity and made it obvious for others who have less insight) so now he can never let it go and is on a mission to destroy me. He treats these forums like his personal playground and drama stage when he is bored, and everyone else gets tormented for it. He antagonized women for years just to get a rise out of them before I put a stop to it. He definitely does NOT believe that we are all family here, and he will never treat us as such.

Jack probably also has his Venus in Scorpio. What an annoying guy.
Click to expand...

The placements you mentioned, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Whether it manifests in annoying ways depends on the person in question, how they handle their astrology, how they express their traits and inheritance as well as your synastry with them.

It is foolish to look at a placement and determine based on a single placement alone it must be something annoying or problematic. It doesn't work like that.

One Scoprio in Venus will be vastly different from another, same as a Mercury in Leo.
Click to expand...

Yes! People need to understand that. A good example is synastry, imagine being friends with twins, your relationship will not be the same, eventho both share almost identical charts.

The placements will manifest differently, and the relationships will vary.

(Also idk why people keep hating Jack tbh)
 
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