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Moon vs Venus Working/Square

ServantOfEnki

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
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25
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Satan's Earth
Hi All,

While researching the Planetary Squares a bit more than usual, I noticed the following, and would like clarification as to what the difference between the two would be. I'm already busy with other workings, but I'm curious like crazy to understand the difference between these two. I'm currently busy with the Venus Square, to supplement my existing Sun Working. Both, obviously, for finances and money.


Moon Square, as I'm aware, rules women in a man's chart, family, mother, mind, subconscious, emotions, feelings, etc.

Venus Square, as I'm aware, rules love, relationships, beauty, money (lesser than Sun), etc.



Now "Love" (Venus) means different things to different people, yet isn't it under the same parcel as emotions/feelings (Moon)? Where does one draw a distinction, since essentially, these are all subjective and can mean different things, to different people?

So when we do a love spell or sex magick, for example, why would it be ruled by Venus, and not the Moon?

Can one, based on the 2nd question, not do a Moon Working/Square instead; to influence someone that a Venus Working/Square would for a Love working? As in do a "Love Spell" using the Moon, instead of Venus. This would be applicable only to men, as I understand it. Or ANY other emotion/feeling, for that matter to influence someone.

Are the emotions and feelings of the Moon Square, pertinent to ALL emotions/feelings, including "Love"? Being a Gemini Venus, my concept of what constitutes "love" would be vastly different, to the other signs, for example.

Are the emotions/feelings subjective only, due to the Moon's influence on the mind and subconscious; OR can one, for example, evoke "Hatred", or "Anger" in someone else objectively?
As in, using the Moon Square/Working, one can influence ALL emotions/feelings, both positively and negatively, since that is it's Rulership.

Curious to fully understand these distinctions between these 2 Squares. I've never done a Moon Square before, so I don't have experience with it; also it having 81 reps is a bit brutal, and easy to mess up, as a Square. So I simply haven't bothered..

Any advice, suggestions, answers; would be greatly appreciated. I'm always too curious, and asking questions.... :roll:


Hail Satan!!

Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
 
You can say that about any of the planets really. Like sun and Jupiter and happiness and Mars and aggression for example. Those are still emotions too, like you are saying about Venus and the moon. There’s a bit of overlap in a couple areas regarding rulerships too, but the same ideas can be expressed differently depending on the energy involved.

But I’ve always taken the moon to be more about the flowing of emotion than any particular emotion. That’s why what sign the moon is in is important for timing specific spells and workings on top of planets being in the right sign. So Venus in its exalted or home signs as well as the moon being in those signs for a powerful love spell.

I would say focusing on a moon square would be better for controlling erratic emotions in yourself or perhaps curing a lack of emotion. Or making it to where you connect with women better on an emotional level or help reconnect you with your mother if you need that. While a Venus square would be more specific to an intimate relationship with another person. If we’re speaking strictly emotions. It’s best to be direct as possible, either way.

I’d recommend meditating on the planets before doing the squares if you haven’t already. Researching their home signs may help you understand their differences a bit better as well.
 
Libra said:
You can say that about any of the planets really. Like sun and Jupiter and happiness and Mars and aggression for example. Those are still emotions too, like you are saying about Venus and the moon. There’s a bit of overlap in a couple areas regarding rulerships too, but the same ideas can be expressed differently depending on the energy involved.

But I’ve always taken the moon to be more about the flowing of emotion than any particular emotion. That’s why what sign the moon is in is important for timing specific spells and workings on top of planets being in the right sign. So Venus in its exalted or home signs as well as the moon being in those signs for a powerful love spell.

I would say focusing on a moon square would be better for controlling erratic emotions in yourself or perhaps curing a lack of emotion. Or making it to where you connect with women better on an emotional level or help reconnect you with your mother if you need that. While a Venus square would be more specific to an intimate relationship with another person. If we’re speaking strictly emotions. It’s best to be direct as possible, either way.

I’d recommend meditating on the planets before doing the squares if you haven’t already. Researching their home signs may help you understand their differences a bit better as well.

Thank You Libra for the reply.

I have a dominant and powerful Moon in my Natal, so I understand what you mean. Besides the sensitivity and intuition, has given me a "feminine" insight to energy as a whole. Am also Water dominant, although balanced relatively with the other 3 elements.. Thus, my moods greatly affect my thinking. Sensitive enough, to feel when the Moon changes sign, empathic to people's moods, "vibes" in the air, directed energy, etc. Noticed also, blatantly, when Venus went from Taurus to Gemini with my Venus Square. It gave a very different signature.

I take the Moon, as you said, regarding the expression (or lack thereof) of emotions in general. While my understanding of Venus is how we would express "love", and how we want to be loved, what we would consider Beautiful, etc, specifically. That is how I felt the energies to be. I normally vibrate the Energies, a few days before any working, so I can be aware of what to "feel", and be aware of the energy raised/directed.

I was wondering about the subtle distinction between the two, hence my post. Merely a matter of semantics. Comes down to specific energies we wish to use, by choosing the different planets, regarding "emotions" collectively. As you confirmed.

So, basically, Venus is focused on love and relationships in regards to emotion; while the Moon is how we would express that love or any other emotion, for that matter. Venus would be for one-on-one relationship; while Moon would be for women, collectively speaking. I see now, how the overlap would work; just like Mars rules the Men in a woman's chart, along with the Sun. Ying-Yang, duality. As I understand it, and how it "feels" to me. I just wanted to hear other's opinion on this.

Better to ask, than to assume things. Thank you for the response.
 
ServantOfEnki said:
Hi All,

While researching the Planetary Squares a bit more than usual, I noticed the following, and would like clarification as to what the difference between the two would be. I'm already busy with other workings, but I'm curious like crazy to understand the difference between these two. I'm currently busy with the Venus Square, to supplement my existing Sun Working. Both, obviously, for finances and money.


Moon Square, as I'm aware, rules women in a man's chart, family, mother, mind, subconscious, emotions, feelings, etc.

Venus Square, as I'm aware, rules love, relationships, beauty, money (lesser than Sun), etc.



Now "Love" (Venus) means different things to different people, yet isn't it under the same parcel as emotions/feelings (Moon)? Where does one draw a distinction, since essentially, these are all subjective and can mean different things, to different people?

So when we do a love spell or sex magick, for example, why would it be ruled by Venus, and not the Moon?

Can one, based on the 2nd question, not do a Moon Working/Square instead; to influence someone that a Venus Working/Square would for a Love working? As in do a "Love Spell" using the Moon, instead of Venus. This would be applicable only to men, as I understand it. Or ANY other emotion/feeling, for that matter to influence someone.

Are the emotions and feelings of the Moon Square, pertinent to ALL emotions/feelings, including "Love"? Being a Gemini Venus, my concept of what constitutes "love" would be vastly different, to the other signs, for example.

Are the emotions/feelings subjective only, due to the Moon's influence on the mind and subconscious; OR can one, for example, evoke "Hatred", or "Anger" in someone else objectively?
As in, using the Moon Square/Working, one can influence ALL emotions/feelings, both positively and negatively, since that is it's Rulership.

Curious to fully understand these distinctions between these 2 Squares. I've never done a Moon Square before, so I don't have experience with it; also it having 81 reps is a bit brutal, and easy to mess up, as a Square. So I simply haven't bothered..

Any advice, suggestions, answers; would be greatly appreciated. I'm always too curious, and asking questions.... :roll:


Hail Satan!!

Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
Venus is closely associated with the emotions but in particular it rules the romantic type of love. The Moon is more generic and rules emotions in general. For both sexes, if you want a partner, go for the Venus square.
 
Blackdragon666 said:
ServantOfEnki said:
Hi All,

While researching the Planetary Squares a bit more than usual, I noticed the following, and would like clarification as to what the difference between the two would be. I'm already busy with other workings, but I'm curious like crazy to understand the difference between these two. I'm currently busy with the Venus Square, to supplement my existing Sun Working. Both, obviously, for finances and money.


Moon Square, as I'm aware, rules women in a man's chart, family, mother, mind, subconscious, emotions, feelings, etc.

Venus Square, as I'm aware, rules love, relationships, beauty, money (lesser than Sun), etc.



Now "Love" (Venus) means different things to different people, yet isn't it under the same parcel as emotions/feelings (Moon)? Where does one draw a distinction, since essentially, these are all subjective and can mean different things, to different people?

So when we do a love spell or sex magick, for example, why would it be ruled by Venus, and not the Moon?

Can one, based on the 2nd question, not do a Moon Working/Square instead; to influence someone that a Venus Working/Square would for a Love working? As in do a "Love Spell" using the Moon, instead of Venus. This would be applicable only to men, as I understand it. Or ANY other emotion/feeling, for that matter to influence someone.

Are the emotions and feelings of the Moon Square, pertinent to ALL emotions/feelings, including "Love"? Being a Gemini Venus, my concept of what constitutes "love" would be vastly different, to the other signs, for example.

Are the emotions/feelings subjective only, due to the Moon's influence on the mind and subconscious; OR can one, for example, evoke "Hatred", or "Anger" in someone else objectively?
As in, using the Moon Square/Working, one can influence ALL emotions/feelings, both positively and negatively, since that is it's Rulership.

Curious to fully understand these distinctions between these 2 Squares. I've never done a Moon Square before, so I don't have experience with it; also it having 81 reps is a bit brutal, and easy to mess up, as a Square. So I simply haven't bothered..

Any advice, suggestions, answers; would be greatly appreciated. I'm always too curious, and asking questions.... :roll:


Hail Satan!!

Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
Venus is closely associated with the emotions but in particular it rules the romantic type of love. The Moon is more generic and rules emotions in general. For both sexes, if you want a partner, go for the Venus square.

Thank You for the reply.

I figured as much. See my earlier reply to Libra, as to my thoughts on this.

So Moon would be the expression (or lack thereof) of emotions, taken collectively. While Venus would be specifically "love", relationships, and "love with affection" in particular. Mars, conversely, would rule lust, sexual attraction, passions, etc.

They DO overlap, the planets with each other regarding "emotion", but I understand the subtle distinctions now. It's more about a specific kind of emotion, that each rules; while Moon covers them all, as a generalisation.

So Venus Square, for romance, and romantic love. Moon Square to better express or control emotions in general. Especially subjectively.
 
I have a different opinion about this. I believe that Moon rules the behavior of men in general towards women (reading their emotions, understanding what their saying, and seeing opportunities) and the general energy he's projecting. Versus Venus, which is specifically Romantic behavior (laser targeting).

For example, you see some guys who just get along really well with women and they can be good friends with them and communicate with their emotions and deep feelings, like they want to be communicated. This kind of a person is a very amicable, approachable person who is liked by all women and has a bunch of women around him all the time. If you sprinkle in some Seduction, he might also have a lot of sexual opportunities.

But in reality most men don't have this, and they can't communicate emotionally with anyone which is how a woman communicates. But the caveat here is that even though he can't communicate emotionally in a genuine way ,if he's determined to get laid he'll just be direct and be masculine, and still get laid by women who will let him. He doesn't need to be friends like the first guy. He doesn't have female friends and still gets laid by laser targeting.

This is what i would say between the two energies, if it would relate to the real world.

Now if you combine Moon + Venus ,this is going to be hardcore. Because not only is the guy now approachable and charming , he has the Venus aspect of laser targeting so he's going to get into the womans pants very very quickly, because he's going to know which emotional states he has to get her into and how.
 
Jack said:
I have a different opinion about this. I believe that Moon rules the behavior of men in general towards women (reading their emotions, understanding what their saying, and seeing opportunities) and the general energy he's projecting. Versus Venus, which is specifically Romantic behavior (laser targeting).

For example, you see some guys who just get along really well with women and they can be good friends with them and communicate with their emotions and deep feelings, like they want to be communicated. This kind of a person is a very amicable, approachable person who is liked by all women and has a bunch of women around him all the time. If you sprinkle in some Seduction, he might also have a lot of sexual opportunities.

But in reality most men don't have this, and they can't communicate emotionally with anyone which is how a woman communicates. But the caveat here is that even though he can't communicate emotionally in a genuine way ,if he's determined to get laid he'll just be direct and be masculine, and still get laid by women who will let him. He doesn't need to be friends like the first guy. He doesn't have female friends and still gets laid by laser targeting.

This is what i would say between the two energies, if it would relate to the real world.

Now if you combine Moon + Venus ,this is going to be hardcore. Because not only is the guy now approachable and charming , he has the Venus aspect of laser targeting so he's going to get into the womans pants very very quickly, because he's going to know which emotional states he has to get her into and how.

Thanks for the reply Jack.

I have a powerful and exalted Moon. It's my most dominant planet in my natal chart, along with some retrograde outer planets. I get what you're saying though.

I have a whole lotmore female friends than male, and can "read" them easily. I'm the guy who holds all their secrets, and who they turn to when men treat them like shit, protect them from the persistent males, etc.. Also, I do use this emotional rapport to be on friendlier terms with the women, and sometimes "turn up the charm/seduction", if I ever have to use it to obtain someone/something from a woman. Not speaking sexually either. However, I'm a bit shy, being Water dominant, so I don't actually use this to get into their pants. It would be easy to make them eat out of the palm of my hand, but I hold women in high regard, and not merely as a sexual object. Heck, my Greatest Mentor in Satanism, was woman, once a part of the JoS.. Women, are quite naturally, more into the occult, and their insights and teaching have been priceless to me.

I have Venus in Gemini, so it's never the same "depth" of emotions as them when it comes to relationships. I also love multiple women, each for different reasons, and with my own depth to it. Admittedly, emotions are strong in the beginning, and begins to wane off, with the passage of time; regarding relationships. My Venus placement isn't special or anything. I'm good with women in general, but I DO suck when it comes to relationship material. I get bored easily in that regard, besides being naturally aloof. My thinking is strongly affected by my moods, and they're as variable as the Moon itself. It's why Void is essentially my life-saver otherwise, or else my emotions would be uncontrollable doing meditations all these years.

I get what you're saying Jack, but I wanted to understand the difference between, say a Venus working vs a Moon working, regarding "emotions" only. Emotional rapport is foremost, then comes your "laser zooming", for me personally. I also feel and understand Moon as the expression of emotion, while Venus deals with relationships with a partner. Besides, emotions are more subjective than anything, and "love" means very different things to everybody. I understand, one is general, like the Moon for emotions; the other, more specific, like Venus for love and affection. I've recently begun a Venus working for money, while I've never done a Moon working before. I wanted to hear other's advice, results, expectations; so I could better know what to expect before I attempt to ever use a Moon Square/Working. My intention, is also to collate questions together, so that they're not in multiple posts either.

But Thank You, for your opinion, as I do take everything into consideration, from other SS, before doing my own thing.

Hail Satan!!
Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
 
ServantOfEnki said:
Jack said:
I have a different opinion about this. I believe that Moon rules the behavior of men in general towards women (reading their emotions, understanding what their saying, and seeing opportunities) and the general energy he's projecting. Versus Venus, which is specifically Romantic behavior (laser targeting).

For example, you see some guys who just get along really well with women and they can be good friends with them and communicate with their emotions and deep feelings, like they want to be communicated. This kind of a person is a very amicable, approachable person who is liked by all women and has a bunch of women around him all the time. If you sprinkle in some Seduction, he might also have a lot of sexual opportunities.

But in reality most men don't have this, and they can't communicate emotionally with anyone which is how a woman communicates. But the caveat here is that even though he can't communicate emotionally in a genuine way ,if he's determined to get laid he'll just be direct and be masculine, and still get laid by women who will let him. He doesn't need to be friends like the first guy. He doesn't have female friends and still gets laid by laser targeting.

This is what i would say between the two energies, if it would relate to the real world.

Now if you combine Moon + Venus ,this is going to be hardcore. Because not only is the guy now approachable and charming , he has the Venus aspect of laser targeting so he's going to get into the womans pants very very quickly, because he's going to know which emotional states he has to get her into and how.

Thanks for the reply Jack.

I have a powerful and exalted Moon. It's my most dominant planet in my natal chart, along with some retrograde outer planets. I get what you're saying though.

I have a whole lotmore female friends than male, and can "read" them easily. I'm the guy who holds all their secrets, and who they turn to when men treat them like shit, protect them from the persistent males, etc.. Also, I do use this emotional rapport to be on friendlier terms with the women, and sometimes "turn up the charm/seduction", if I ever have to use it to obtain someone/something from a woman. Not speaking sexually either. However, I'm a bit shy, being Water dominant, so I don't actually use this to get into their pants. It would be easy to make them eat out of the palm of my hand, but I hold women in high regard, and not merely as a sexual object. Heck, my Greatest Mentor in Satanism, was woman, once a part of the JoS.. Women, are quite naturally, more into the occult, and their insights and teaching have been priceless to me.

I have Venus in Gemini, so it's never the same "depth" of emotions as them when it comes to relationships. I also love multiple women, each for different reasons, and with my own depth to it. Admittedly, emotions are strong in the beginning, and begins to wane off, with the passage of time; regarding relationships. My Venus placement isn't special or anything. I'm good with women in general, but I DO suck when it comes to relationship material. I get bored easily in that regard, besides being naturally aloof. My thinking is strongly affected by my moods, and they're as variable as the Moon itself. It's why Void is essentially my life-saver otherwise, or else my emotions would be uncontrollable doing meditations all these years.

I get what you're saying Jack, but I wanted to understand the difference between, say a Venus working vs a Moon working, regarding "emotions" only. Emotional rapport is foremost, then comes your "laser zooming", for me personally. I also feel and understand Moon as the expression of emotion, while Venus deals with relationships with a partner. Besides, emotions are more subjective than anything, and "love" means very different things to everybody. I understand, one is general, like the Moon for emotions; the other, more specific, like Venus for love and affection. I've recently begun a Venus working for money, while I've never done a Moon working before. I wanted to hear other's advice, results, expectations; so I could better know what to expect before I attempt to ever use a Moon Square/Working. My intention, is also to collate questions together, so that they're not in multiple posts either.

But Thank You, for your opinion, as I do take everything into consideration, from other SS, before doing my own thing.

Hail Satan!!
Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
I was just Hypothesizing there. I'm very wary of having female friends because I'm afraid they might fall in love with me because of my general behaviour. But i have a couple of female friends who i ask their opinion about because Women tend to know what other women would like, in apparel or what they mean what they say something in a relationship. They are more socially attuned to these fine aspects better than me.

I also don't hang around much around women because when you're constantly around women you might become womanly and emotional trying to deal with them all the time. You might start thinking about unnecessary things and you're cut off from your passion and dreams. Being around women is very comforting and they'll always nurture you but offsetting risk taking behavior will bring ruin to ambition. I find that men who are constantly around women are drama queens and very unstable emotionally.

I also don't think, and this is my personal opinion that you should be vulnerable or emotionally weak opening up to a woman you're sexually attracted to or involved with. I know that women on television and on talk shows say they want a guy who shares his emotions with them and all that bs ,but it doesn't relate to the real world. I don't know the percentage but its definitely the majority of women who will lose respect and attraction for you if you share weaknesses with them in hopes of getting consolation. Thia has also been my personal experience where when i shared my problems with a woman I was seeing she was totally different the next day and eventually it didn't work out.

If you have problems, don't bitch on your woman. Instead go talk to your guy friends about this or a woman you're not sexually interested in. There is a high chance that otherwise it will sabotage the relationship. Women are not equipped to handle grief the same way men are. And it also causes cognitive dissonance because a man needs to take care of a woman but if he's himself insecure and acts womanly then its not a man to woman relationship anymore. Its a lesbian relationship. You can always show positive emotions but never show weakness or vulnerability to your spouse. There is no such thing as 50 50. A womans problems are your problems and your problems are also your problems. When i was little and i used to try to be vulnerable to my mom ,she always used to say " Stop complaining. Your a man. Go do your work." I used to resent her for being like this but as I've recently discovered in my adulthood her behavior was training for me to deal with women as an adult. Women will try to test you by questioning you about your problems and they'll try really really hard about this. But you must never as principle do this as it will cause her to lose attraction for you.
 
Jack said:
ServantOfEnki said:
Jack said:
I have a different opinion about this. I believe that Moon rules the behavior of men in general towards women (reading their emotions, understanding what their saying, and seeing opportunities) and the general energy he's projecting. Versus Venus, which is specifically Romantic behavior (laser targeting).

For example, you see some guys who just get along really well with women and they can be good friends with them and communicate with their emotions and deep feelings, like they want to be communicated. This kind of a person is a very amicable, approachable person who is liked by all women and has a bunch of women around him all the time. If you sprinkle in some Seduction, he might also have a lot of sexual opportunities.

But in reality most men don't have this, and they can't communicate emotionally with anyone which is how a woman communicates. But the caveat here is that even though he can't communicate emotionally in a genuine way ,if he's determined to get laid he'll just be direct and be masculine, and still get laid by women who will let him. He doesn't need to be friends like the first guy. He doesn't have female friends and still gets laid by laser targeting.

This is what i would say between the two energies, if it would relate to the real world.

Now if you combine Moon + Venus ,this is going to be hardcore. Because not only is the guy now approachable and charming , he has the Venus aspect of laser targeting so he's going to get into the womans pants very very quickly, because he's going to know which emotional states he has to get her into and how.

Thanks for the reply Jack.

I have a powerful and exalted Moon. It's my most dominant planet in my natal chart, along with some retrograde outer planets. I get what you're saying though.

I have a whole lotmore female friends than male, and can "read" them easily. I'm the guy who holds all their secrets, and who they turn to when men treat them like shit, protect them from the persistent males, etc.. Also, I do use this emotional rapport to be on friendlier terms with the women, and sometimes "turn up the charm/seduction", if I ever have to use it to obtain someone/something from a woman. Not speaking sexually either. However, I'm a bit shy, being Water dominant, so I don't actually use this to get into their pants. It would be easy to make them eat out of the palm of my hand, but I hold women in high regard, and not merely as a sexual object. Heck, my Greatest Mentor in Satanism, was woman, once a part of the JoS.. Women, are quite naturally, more into the occult, and their insights and teaching have been priceless to me.

I have Venus in Gemini, so it's never the same "depth" of emotions as them when it comes to relationships. I also love multiple women, each for different reasons, and with my own depth to it. Admittedly, emotions are strong in the beginning, and begins to wane off, with the passage of time; regarding relationships. My Venus placement isn't special or anything. I'm good with women in general, but I DO suck when it comes to relationship material. I get bored easily in that regard, besides being naturally aloof. My thinking is strongly affected by my moods, and they're as variable as the Moon itself. It's why Void is essentially my life-saver otherwise, or else my emotions would be uncontrollable doing meditations all these years.

I get what you're saying Jack, but I wanted to understand the difference between, say a Venus working vs a Moon working, regarding "emotions" only. Emotional rapport is foremost, then comes your "laser zooming", for me personally. I also feel and understand Moon as the expression of emotion, while Venus deals with relationships with a partner. Besides, emotions are more subjective than anything, and "love" means very different things to everybody. I understand, one is general, like the Moon for emotions; the other, more specific, like Venus for love and affection. I've recently begun a Venus working for money, while I've never done a Moon working before. I wanted to hear other's advice, results, expectations; so I could better know what to expect before I attempt to ever use a Moon Square/Working. My intention, is also to collate questions together, so that they're not in multiple posts either.

But Thank You, for your opinion, as I do take everything into consideration, from other SS, before doing my own thing.

Hail Satan!!
Hail ALL The Gods of Hell!!
I was just Hypothesizing there. I'm very wary of having female friends because I'm afraid they might fall in love with me because of my general behaviour. But i have a couple of female friends who i ask their opinion about because Women tend to know what other women would like, in apparel or what they mean what they say something in a relationship. They are more socially attuned to these fine aspects better than me.

I also don't hang around much around women because when you're constantly around women you might become womanly and emotional trying to deal with them all the time. You might start thinking about unnecessary things and you're cut off from your passion and dreams. Being around women is very comforting and they'll always nurture you but offsetting risk taking behavior will bring ruin to ambition. I find that men who are constantly around women are drama queens and very unstable emotionally.

I also don't think, and this is my personal opinion that you should be vulnerable or emotionally weak opening up to a woman you're sexually attracted to or involved with. I know that women on television and on talk shows say they want a guy who shares his emotions with them and all that bs ,but it doesn't relate to the real world. I don't know the percentage but its definitely the majority of women who will lose respect and attraction for you if you share weaknesses with them in hopes of getting consolation. Thia has also been my personal experience where when i shared my problems with a woman I was seeing she was totally different the next day and eventually it didn't work out.

If you have problems, don't bitch on your woman. Instead go talk to your guy friends about this or a woman you're not sexually interested in. There is a high chance that otherwise it will sabotage the relationship. Women are not equipped to handle grief the same way men are. And it also causes cognitive dissonance because a man needs to take care of a woman but if he's himself insecure and acts womanly then its not a man to woman relationship anymore. Its a lesbian relationship. You can always show positive emotions but never show weakness or vulnerability to your spouse. There is no such thing as 50 50. A womans problems are your problems and your problems are also your problems. When i was little and i used to try to be vulnerable to my mom ,she always used to say " Stop complaining. Your a man. Go do your work." I used to resent her for being like this but as I've recently discovered in my adulthood her behavior was training for me to deal with women as an adult. Women will try to test you by questioning you about your problems and they'll try really really hard about this. But you must never as principle do this as it will cause her to lose attraction for you.

I agree with you Jake. Most of my friends are female, although I also have male friends. Can't hang around the female friends for too long either, as their "feminine" energies can be a little too much at times. Some of my male friends are proper "Alpha's", and I find it amusing. I have a Sun/Mars conjunct, so I can relate with them, and know how to deal with them easily. I don't associate with the "feminine" guys at all, as I find that behavior somewhat repulsive. Being an SS, and seeing other's at the mercy and whim of their emotions, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Besides, the women I know are all powerful individuals; mostly highly educated, intelligent, and quite dominant as women.. Not exactly "soft" ladies I associate with. Even being predominantly Water, I've always been drawn and attracted to Fire women; as I tend to be rather dominant to the softer element women.

I never really express/display emotion to others, so I come across as mysterious, callous, indifferent and very aloof. Subjectively, it's a different story; but objectively, I'm as readable as a stone statue. I also barely discuss my problems with others, as many are non-SS; and the enemy would merely puppeteer them, nor do I desire them to have any power over me. Personal experience has taught me very well.

I can relate what your mom said to you completely, and your sentiments on that. Personally, my father abandoned me when I was very young; so I had to grow up quickly, and learn to be the "man of the house". Have done most things in my life by myself (and help from the Satan and the Gods); or at least, teach myself how to do stuff. So I can relate. I'm close to my mom, and other women in the family; because of the treatment of my father towards me. Besides being given occult training, by women mainly, too. Even now, my female friends will rely on me to fix shit in their homes, their cars, build something for them, etc. All the little "man stuff", that many males lack these days. I am an Artisan AND an Engineer, so I can do so easily. Proper "man" jobs too. :lol:

I can also relate about the "love" part, regarding female friends. Some have told me before, and occasionally remind me; that they are in love with me. But I never act upon it, nor do I wish to throw away a friendship. They are good friends, but knowing their secrets, makes them shit relationship material. I wouldn't tolerate even a quarter of the things they subject their partners to. I'm on good terms with their partners too, being good friends to many of them. So I'm usually the one to mediate and advise, both male and female, on how to conduct themselves with whatever problems they approach me with. My problems, however, remain between my GD or Satan only. Now and again, I'll bring something up here on the forums, since we're SS. And only another SS, can relate to the problems we SS have to endure, anonymously. NPC's, however, I remain a strictly stone statue with at almost all times. Whether in my social circle, work environment, or anywhere else.

I suppose some women would find it adorable for a man to be vulnerable sometimes, but I draw a fine line between "whining" and just expressing frustration. Like you, I agree that it shouldn't be done, unless you've already been committed to your partner for decades. Even then, I don't express or display emotion or affection, as easily. Venus in Gemini makes it easy for me to intellectualize my emotions, but I've never really been one to express them as easily. It's why I appear aloof and callous to others in general, but they mistake self-control for reptilian behavior. Or whatever they wish to think, I couldn't really care either. In that regard, it makes me "shy" in relationships, and suck at them; because I simply cannot be as affectionate or loving as my partners wish me to be. Like you've mentioned; we don't practice Void and Meditations for years, to controlled by our emotions. Always conduct yourself with self-control, as an SS.. So I show my affection with small gestures of affection instead, cute little things sometimes, doing favors for them, doing "man" stuff for them, etc. But I can never tell my women my serious problems, nor show much vulnerability. I've had to grow up and learn things the hard way, and I won't let manipulation or emotions get in the way of that. I'm fully aware of how both women AND men conduct manipulation...
 

Al Jilwah: Chapter IV

"It is my desire that all my followers unite in a bond of unity, lest those who are without prevail against them." - Satan

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