Hi all, just wanted your opinion on the twin problem in astrology. Twins have almost identical placements yet their personalities can differ, what is a solid counter argument to this?

I tend to think that actually twins end up being quite the same, but some signs and planets are dualistic so can vary. A pair of twins with a pisces emphasis, for instance. One may be a drug addict schizo, miserable and depressed. The other can be psychcic, empathetic, intuitive and caring. Both have the same placements. Scorpio's can be very talented occultists, or serial killers.

Also I say that, for instance, If one is diagnosed with a mental illness, the chance of the other having it is dramatically higher than the average person.

Any thoughts/rebuttals?

I don't think it's a problem. It's most likely just two souls with similar elements and energies - although if we're talking within the white race, there's currently a shortage of births so souls will likely take what they can get.

The different expressions of the chart can likely be explained by differences in the two souls. For example, one manifests the negative energies of the sign due to their particular past karma, influences, inclinations, and they may have more curses/filth weighing down their soul compared to the twin. The other soul then would manifest the positive energies of the sign for the same reasons.

Also don't forget that the level of consciousness also influences the way in which one utilizes the energies of their birth chart. If someone has epic placements, but they get trapped into xianity then they won't be using their birth chart to the full potential until they wake up, gain more knowledge and awareness, and change their life. Kind of like I did. I have aspects and placements that make me predisposed to being a genius, a philosopher, and more. But I was raised by xians so I didn't know anything until I started waking myself up.

Anyway, in sum, souls are unique and they will express their birth chart in their own unique way.
This is my best guess on it. I was also interested in this question not that long ago when I was studying on the JoS Astrology section.

Satanic_truth88 said:

Hi all, just wanted your opinion on the twin problem in astrology. Twins have almost identical placements yet their personalities can differ, what is a solid counter argument to this?

I tend to think that actually twins end up being quite the same, but some signs and planets are dualistic so can vary. A pair of twins with a pisces emphasis, for instance. One may be a drug addict schizo, miserable and depressed. The other can be psychcic, empathetic, intuitive and caring. Both have the same placements. Scorpio's can be very talented occultists, or serial killers.

Also I say that, for instance, If one is diagnosed with a mental illness, the chance of the other having it is dramatically higher than the average person.

Any thoughts/rebuttals?

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The couple of minutes difference for the twins to get born makes a difference. Also they are two different souls. No soul is identical and everyone is individual even if someone was born at the same time at the same moment. Genetics also play a role on the individuality of the person.

It sounds indeed like both Satanic_truth and jrvan are getting at the same general idea; differences in the soul, differences in the planets' energies, such and so forth.

I think in combination with those factors, are the simple differences that occur within each twin's life, especially the type of people they associate with. I know a pair of twins whose birth times are known and only minutes apart, and they both have a strong Jupiter-Pluto aspect as a result. This can indicate a person with strongly held philosophical and/or religious beliefs to the point of fanaticism. It also can indicate a person whose religious/philosophical beliefs undergo a radical change at some point, often inducing fanaticism. While both twins can be described as strongly opinionated, only one has, in recent time, undergone such a shift. By associating with mormons, she was exposed to that ideology and became obsessively devoted to it, to the point that she looks down upon the rest of her family for not being mormon. The other twin not only did not have that exposure, but her exposure to a radically different friend group has her locked into other unhealthy behaviors. But, given time and meeting certain people, she herself could find herself making that same type of dramatic shift in beliefs as her sister did - and chances are, it'll correspond to a combination of transits and progressions.

This is an ancient xian argument against Astrology (which somehow didn't stop any of the Popes using Astrologers.. but whatever).

Firstly, it comes down to free will. Astrology is not determinism, it's like a set of parameters. Seconds can provide for an extreme difference, which is known in Jyotish, yet this hasn't been focused on much in Western. Twins can have different Ascendant signs, and even the degrees, bounds, terms and decans provide differences. The fixed stars are also of massive importance here. Someone with an Ascendant at Caput Algol and someone with the same at Alcyon (4 degrees later) are going to be very very different.

Placements and the character of the Chart(s) themselves matter. I went over this with the case of June and Jennifer Gibbons here. That was a case of twins who were legitimately soulmates, to the point where they decided one would die for the other to live freely and she did. Most twins do not have the chart placements for this type of intense connection.

Twins with oppositional, selfish and individuality-focused placements like heavy Mars or Uranus prominence may want to be inherently totally different to their twin and HATE being put in identical clothing, being around their twin all the time, etc. This also comes down to the Houses and other things.

Twins tend to share sexual orientation at a rate of 50 percent. The same goes for certain mental illnesses (but not others, which is a mystery). Are genetics wrong because it's not 100 percent?

Also planets can push and pull people around depending on where someone is and what they're doing, so unless twins are always in the same place 24/7 they're going to be subjected to different energies. Actions determine this too, one twin doing somersaults on a motorbike is probably a lot more likely to get into trouble than one sitting down doing nothing all day.

An individual soul matters. Identical twins, carrying the same exact genetic print, have completely different fingerprints and astrology works the same way and is like a fingerprint. It may appear the same but the way the astrological energy manifests in their life is different, kind of like a filter

I was engaged to a guy who had almost an identical birth chart to me. The way we operated on a particular level was extremely similar, though his level of awareness sucked and he couldn’t see it. Completely different events affected our lives and overall we were so extremely different, but there were subtle similarities that made us like twins.

For example, both having a mercury in libra in the same house a degree or two off, our arguments were always tactful and never actual arguments. We both really felt pride in the fact that we did not argue. Even at the end of our relationship, this became actually difficult because instead of being willing to argue something out it would be forcefully swept under the rug. We never called each other a single name, except one day at the end he mustered up the ability to call me a bitch and I was flabbergasted. I left for three days about it.

Overall even though we have almost the same birth chart, I find him to be a fake and unoriginal person who is just a clone of everything around him. I think he’s weak willed and could never speak up for himself, and allowed everyone else to tell him what he wanted. He saw me as an extremely stubborn person and someone who was “too honest” too independent and someone to compete with, which I hated. I thought positively of him that he seemed to never let anything phase him and that he could be so level headed and focused, always getting things done. He thought I was extremely smart and original, especially in art, which he envied.

We viewed each other so differently but we what he fails to see is that after adding everything all together, we were both so extremely stubborn and independent. We both felt a mild sense of competition. I felt he was too overbearing and in response I would vehemently draw boundaries and shove him away. He would eat everything in sight, and then I felt the need to hoard food for myself so that he couldn’t eat it. We’re both artists of a similar style but drastically different way of expressing it. We were like siblings and it felt like living with my actual brother. We treated each other like best friends sometimes more than an actual relationship.


I think it works the same for identical twins. They can appear so drastically different but still share extremely wild similarities.

One thing that is also interesting is people born in the same hospital/similar time as eachother. This often occurs on full moons, which seem to trigger births all over when they come.

It's probably more commonplace than we can tell right now.