Joy Of Satan Forums

Or is the working fucked?

Nope it isn’t fucked. You can do that. It’s less powerful but it works.

It is fucked. It has to be vibrated through your vocal cords which generate the particular sound of particular wavelength and frequency and hence particular energy. Doing it mentally is simply self hypnosis. It cannot be called a mantra working.

Since I'm already doing 2 workings to manifest 2 things that are connected should I do also aura programming for something that is only slightly connected to the 2 workings?

I would personally vouch against that. This is just my own personal opinion on the matter, but the following should add sense to it...

A good analogy referred in the JoS is the striking of a bell. Just like a bell struck consistently, the words you vibrate send out a “message”. This “message” or vibration stays with you and fulfills your will based on the word of power and how you directed the energy. When it is done mentally, it has much less of a physical effect, and one day missed in vibrating the word with intent and direction can be considered missed as with a 40 day working there needs to be consistency.

You want to consistently *VIBRATE* the word of power in your soul to affect reality. This vibration will then reverberate in your being and soul long after the 40 days working. Thus, you will have an advantage to fulfill the desire and will of the working, directly reality with the change in vibration which lead to newfound options and doors opening up.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Jack wrote:It is fucked. It has to be vibrated through your vocal cords which generate the particular sound of particular wavelength and frequency and hence particular energy. Doing it mentally is simply self hypnosis. It cannot be called a mantra working.

This is false. Though, you are correct that the sound aspect of vibration is a key component to the power, it isn’t exclusively the reason there is power in vibrating the mantras. If this was so, then it wouldn’t matter what mantra one vibrated to gain energy for a working. If it was all just sound is needed, it wouldn’t matter. The mantras themselves have power, and vibrating them in your mind activates that power.

In ideal circumstances one would take advantage of both aspects of the power of mantras, one being the innate power itself ingrained in the mantra and also the sound. If someone wanted best outcome, you should vibrate the mantra aloud.

If there are circumstances, for the odd day here or there where you can’t vibrate aloud, it is perfectly valid to vibrate mentally and achieve results.

Braun666 wrote:A good analogy referred in the JoS is the striking of a bell. Just like a bell struck consistently, the words you vibrate send out a “message”. This “message” or vibration stays with you and fulfills your will based on the word of power and how you directed the energy. When it is done mentally, it has much less of a physical effect, and one day missed in vibrating the word with intent and direction can be considered missed as with a 40 day working there needs to be consistency.

As I said to Jack, this is true what you say, the sound adds another element to the power and it is a very powerful part of this, but what you’re missing is the mantras are ancient and have power themselves separate from the sound aspect. You can, for instance meditate on the symbol of a rune and derive power from it, completely without sound or mental vibration. All words of power have their own distinct powerful attributes. It’s not just the sound that creates energy from them.

Eric13 wrote:

Jack wrote:It is fucked. It has to be vibrated through your vocal cords which generate the particular sound of particular wavelength and frequency and hence particular energy. Doing it mentally is simply self hypnosis. It cannot be called a mantra working.

This is false. Though, you are correct that the sound aspect of vibration is a key component to the power, it isn’t exclusively the reason there is power in vibrating the mantras. If this was so, then it wouldn’t matter what mantra one vibrated to gain energy for a working. If it was all just sound is needed, it wouldn’t matter. The mantras themselves have power, and vibrating them in your mind activates that power.

In ideal circumstances one would take advantage of both aspects of the power of mantras, one being the innate power itself ingrained in the mantra and also the sound. If someone wanted best outcome, you should vibrate the mantra aloud.

If there are circumstances, for the odd day here or there where you can’t vibrate aloud, it is perfectly valid to vibrate mentally and achieve results.

Braun666 wrote:A good analogy referred in the JoS is the striking of a bell. Just like a bell struck consistently, the words you vibrate send out a “message”. This “message” or vibration stays with you and fulfills your will based on the word of power and how you directed the energy. When it is done mentally, it has much less of a physical effect, and one day missed in vibrating the word with intent and direction can be considered missed as with a 40 day working there needs to be consistency.

As I said to Jack, this is true what you say, the sound adds another element to the power and it is a very powerful part of this, but what you’re missing is the mantras are ancient and have power themselves separate from the sound aspect. You can, for instance meditate on the symbol of a rune and derive power from it, completely without sound or mental vibration. All words of power have their own distinct powerful attributes. It’s not just the sound that creates energy from them.

Different root words of sanskrit make up different frequencies and wavelengths when combined creates a particular type of energy. You cannot use a violent death energy for a love working. Mantra literally means something that has to be uttered physically,

A mantra (Sanskrit: मन्त्र, romanized: mantra, English pronunciation /ˈmæntrə, ˈmɑːn-, ˈmʌn-/)[2] is a sacred utterance, a numinous sound, a syllable, word or phonemes, or group of words in Sanskrit believed by practitioners to have psychological and/or spiritual powers.[3][4]

How will you generate that particular type of energy without your vocal cords vibrating ? Matter is manifest vibration ,which is assembled on templates of sacred structure. Vibration is key, not imagination.

Eric13 wrote:As I said to Jack, this is true what you say, the sound adds another element to the power and it is a very powerful part of this, but what you’re missing is the mantras are ancient and have power themselves separate from the sound aspect. You can, for instance meditate on the symbol of a rune and derive power from it, completely without sound or mental vibration. All words of power have their own distinct powerful attributes. It’s not just the sound that creates energy from them.

Paraphrased.. "Not just sound vibration makes a working effective" I agree and never did state otherwise. In the case of the OP, I added my two cents stating that the working would be ruined if halfway they decided to skip the vibrations and opt to a different method. A 40/90/120 day working requires the repetition of the same method over and over again, this is what creates the longevity of the work. A reverberation as previously stated, in the case of vibrations. With a mental aspect ONLY the objective leans more towards a subconscious imprint.

Across the JoS website you will find that vibration is the most powerful method, and this is makes total sense. That doesn't mean I'm saying other methods aren't valid and won't work. There are endless ways and methods to complete workings. Vibration is a tried and true method and hold the most power.

Had the OP decided to start the working with a mental chanting of the mantra in deep meditation or just visualizing as symbol/sigil/rune, that would be a another matter and in this case it isn't. As an example take a Square for instance, you wouldn't just decide for one day to stop the vibration and opt to chant the mantra mentally. That would ruin the square. Emphasis on vibration was placed greatly in the instructions for the squares.

If on decides to start a square, chanting mentally, or visualize the numerical structure of the squares by itself(many fools have been doing so for a while) sure they can go ahead, the effects will be MUCH weaker though. They would have to maintain this for the entirety of the square though. The square and moreover many workings are sensitive to the number of vibrations and the number of days(40/90/120 days). These have to do with power.

I wouldn't want OP and anyone else, to think switching things halfway through a working would be okay. But again being that this is mostly my opinion and based on the JoS materials, and observations, which I'd like to stick too, people can take it or leave it and make their own minds up and experiment. If one finds success changing and modifying their workings' procedures then that's great. Hearing of such instances and success in doing so, will allow me to retract in what I've stated. Otherwise I'll stick to what I've said, and will provide OP with my understanding on the matter, hoping they understand the possible effects this can have on the working, and ruin it.

I'm aware meditation has some flexibility, but in the case of a working though what I've stated I'm sure is sound and true.

TopoftheAbyss wrote:Or is the working fucked?

no
rune vibrations fill up an entire room ( i am working on one too). vibrating in mind wont do that. i dont think the entire working is "fucked" though?no sure honestly about the fucked part

If you started a working vibrating things PHYSICALLY, you should keep doing. Doing otherwise you would disrupt the energies of the working, with the high risk of nullifying it.

Jack wrote: How will you generate that particular type of energy without your vocal cords vibrating ? Matter is manifest vibration ,which is assembled on templates of sacred structure. Vibration is key, not imagination.

You’re thinking about it too physical. You got to remember, this isn’t just a physical practice. There’s a metaphysical component to all of this. I don’t know how sensitive to energy you are but if you try it out, you’ll see for yourself. I’ve raised quite a bit of energy doing vibrations purely in my head when I had no privacy. Feeling the strong compulsions of energy after each vibration. I’ve done this a lot.

Braun666 wrote:...

The consistency relates to mantras chosen during a working. For instance, you don’t need to do it during the same planetary hour everyday. The consistency doesn’t apply across the board. Vibrating aloud or in ones head, doesn’t negate the working. What needs to happen for a working to succeed, is energy needs to be raised and programmed. Numbers and astrology play a role too. If all these requisites are met, it’s okay. Vibrating in the mind raises energy, even if it’s inferior to sound, and thus, if all other needs are met, there is no real worry. The worry would come if someone vibrated in their head every time, for something important for instance. Because it’s going to take a longer time.

Eric13 wrote:...

Haven’t in any way rebutted what you’ve stated. You can re-read my reply.

My main concern and reason for responding was in the case of you telling OP it was okay for him to continue. That is the only thing I disagreed with. The variance in the workings progress, the discrepancy in the day, even for that one day, will have less of an effect and can ruin a working. This is especially true for the Satanic Magickal Squares.

My response was a “better safe than sorry” answer and is based on what is on the JoS. Dragging this on to make it seem like you’re 100% right is a bad approach. Other members have chimed in and stated the same. HP’s here would agree as well.

I’m simply rooting for a safe, tried and true way, whereas you’re rooting for experimentation suggesting a successful outcome, while this adds probability to the equation NOT certitude. Again this is relating to the OP, not what you’ve stated about mental vibration, which I haven’t refused.

Braun666 wrote:...

Okay dude, I tried to explain it to you, you’re making presumptions about Hps saying things bla bla and other things. You’re right cause you’ve made theories from things the jos said, (which nowhere does it say anything about a working being ruined from doing a day or two or mental vibrations during a working, even in magical squares), so it’s all presumptions which I’m trying to explain to you are incorrect. Of course I’m not rooting for anyone to fail.

What I said was for a working to work, there must be certain things present. Energy raised, and directed, along with proper use of numbers and astrology. This is true. Very basic stuff. Very well known. Doing mental vibrations, if one correctly takes advantage of numbers, does all these things, thus the working goes on and is not ruined. Never mind the power of it. As you said that isn’t the question. The question of the OP is is it ruined? Basic metaphysics says no, it isn’t. I’ve done this many times myself and can testify off of personal experience. Not theories you’ve put together from taking things out of context on the jos.

Of course I have no intentions of misleading or misguiding any members here and never speak from theory. Ever. This is tried and true things based off of proven metaphysical science. I think what you’re main concern really boils down to is ideal or not ideal, if you really analyze what you’re saying that’s what it is. And of course it isn’t ideal, but it is not nullified. Bottom line.

The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Stormblood wrote:

Eric13 wrote:The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Thanks for pulling these up. He was very adamant on keeping his stance so I didn't bother: stating that mental vibrations are equal to actual chanting vibration. There's only so many times you can say something past a point you'll be repeating the same thing over and over. There's only so much time in a day.

I mean this info is on the JoS website all over the place, in the meditation information section and also HPS Maxine's audio sermons also emphasizes this. And I've come to find it's common sense in a major way. It's a fact that we need a PHYSICAL body to empower ourselves, and that a spirit can do little to nothing in the way of spiritual empowerment. It's why our HP's were needed by the Powers of Hell to empower *special souls* that have a purpose to fulfill on this planet. That alone is extremely telling.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150915033 ... Chant.html

This was never to disagree with the power of mental vibration though, not once did I state these are invalid ways. It was just relating to the OP, that he should discontinue if he opts to change a method for a day and also to correct the mention that the physical vibration is equal to mental vibration.

The RTR's are also vibrated for a reason, whereas a mental "vibration" would still be effective but water them down. As for the mention of required conditions and astrological timings, this is of course required for any working, magickal endeavor and meditation. Also I disagree that mental vibration alone can raise energy and allow one to practice powerful witchcraft. Or that solely based on "numbers" or those optimal conditions, mental vibrations would suffice.

Also no specifications were made on how this "mental vibration" would raise energy in the ways of witchcraft. I recommend carefully reading the following page. It states the most powerful, quick and easy way to raise energy is vibration of a words of power(mantra, rune).

https://web.archive.org/web/20150811120 ... Steps.html

The "mental" aspects of a working mostly under step 2 and especially 3 of the witchcraft steps. OP would fall short if they were to switch their method in a 40 day working and remove step one. This experimentation would be considered a skipped day, as far as the 40 day working goes.

Thanks again for the links Stormblood. I should have gone out of my way as well to link but I was hoping new members would see the previous replies, and decide for themselves. Well the topic has been previously brought up so there's a reference to go by as proven by the links you shared. With those links the consensus and agreed view, is on the same page we're on Stormblood.

Stormblood wrote:The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Yes, but you got to remember, the discussion was never about the difference in power. So that part doesn't matter. We already know and agree sound is more powerful. That's obvious.

But nonetheless the topics you posted do indeed prove my point.

Mental vibration can also be done in specific situations and for the mental environment.

& when another member defended mental vibrations:

Nobody said these were not feasible, or that these were not done. It's done by many. Actually it was always presented as a viable alternative for those who do not have the time and/or ability to do this.

- HP HC

TopoftheAbyss wrote:Or is the working fucked?

No it's not. You're good. Finish the working. As it was clearly pointed out you still raised energy. It's just not as strong if you would have done it loudly but you still raised something at least for that day. Do your best to do it loudly (as in not mentally) from now on to get best results possible.

Eric13 wrote:

Stormblood wrote:The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Yes, but you got to remember, the discussion was never about the difference in power. So that part doesn't matter. We already know and agree sound is more powerful. That's obvious.

But nonetheless the topics you posted do indeed prove my point.

Mental vibration can also be done in specific situations and for the mental environment.

& when another member defended mental vibrations:

Nobody said these were not feasible, or that these were not done. It's done by many. Actually it was always presented as a viable alternative for those who do not have the time and/or ability to do this.

- HP HC

And what do you think a disturbance in the power output part-way through a working would do to said working?

Braun666 wrote: Thanks for pulling these up. He was very adamant on keeping his stance so I didn't bother: stating that mental vibrations are equal to actual chanting vibration. There's only so many times you can say something past a point you'll be repeating the same thing over and over. There's only so much time in a day.

Well, I never said that. So confusion...
But I explained myself rationally. In fact as I pointed out, the threads he posted actually prove my point. The only point I made was a day or two of mental vibrations won’t ruin a working. I explained why. Never said it was as powerful. This is why you’re confused. So I hope it’s cleared up now.

Sort this condescending attitude out though. I explained myself, something you couldn’t do only admitting over and over your thoughts were opinion and declaring yourself right. That doesn’t fly here. I backed my arguments and explained how it works. It’s not rocket science.

hailourtruegod wrote:

TopoftheAbyss wrote:Or is the working fucked?

No it's not. You're good. Finish the working. As it was clearly pointed out you still raised energy. It's just not as strong if you would have done it loudly but you still raised something at least for that day. Do your best to do it loudly (as in not mentally) from now on to get best results possible.

Thanks for the answers everyone. I still don't know what I can do that day but a mix of whisper and vibrations is possible which I guess is not a problem at all to the working.

Stormblood wrote:

Eric13 wrote:

Stormblood wrote:The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Yes, but you got to remember, the discussion was never about the difference in power. So that part doesn't matter. We already know and agree sound is more powerful. That's obvious.

But nonetheless the topics you posted do indeed prove my point.

Mental vibration can also be done in specific situations and for the mental environment.

& when another member defended mental vibrations:

Nobody said these were not feasible, or that these were not done. It's done by many. Actually it was always presented as a viable alternative for those who do not have the time and/or ability to do this.

- HP HC

And what do you think a disturbance in the power output part-way through a working would do to said working?

There is no need to stop a working especially if one is already far into it. Energy is raised regardless in this situation. The results will still manifest and I speak from experience.

TopoftheAbyss wrote:

hailourtruegod wrote:

TopoftheAbyss wrote:Or is the working fucked?

No it's not. You're good. Finish the working. As it was clearly pointed out you still raised energy. It's just not as strong if you would have done it loudly but you still raised something at least for that day. Do your best to do it loudly (as in not mentally) from now on to get best results possible.

Thanks for the answers everyone. I still don't know what I can do that day but a mix of whisper and vibrations is possible which I guess is not a problem at all to the working.

As said, mentally still works and if you can do a whisper/vibrating words as quiet possible then even better. I have had to do this myself and faced no problems in feeling the energy and having the results I wanted.

It helps to fully focus on feeling the vibrations.

Stormblood wrote:

Eric13 wrote:

Stormblood wrote:The clergy has spoken in the past about mental vibrations.

HP Hooded Cobra 1: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18852
HP Hooded Cobra 2: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p18853
HP Mageson: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3249#p19090

Yes, but you got to remember, the discussion was never about the difference in power. So that part doesn't matter. We already know and agree sound is more powerful. That's obvious.

But nonetheless the topics you posted do indeed prove my point.

Mental vibration can also be done in specific situations and for the mental environment.

& when another member defended mental vibrations:

Nobody said these were not feasible, or that these were not done. It's done by many. Actually it was always presented as a viable alternative for those who do not have the time and/or ability to do this.

- HP HC

And what do you think a disturbance in the power output part-way through a working would do to said working?

There is no need to stop a working especially if one is already far into it. Energy is raised regardless in this situation. The results will still manifest and I speak from experience.

TopoftheAbyss wrote:

hailourtruegod wrote:

TopoftheAbyss wrote:Or is the working fucked?

No it's not. You're good. Finish the working. As it was clearly pointed out you still raised energy. It's just not as strong if you would have done it loudly but you still raised something at least for that day. Do your best to do it loudly (as in not mentally) from now on to get best results possible.

Thanks for the answers everyone. I still don't know what I can do that day but a mix of whisper and vibrations is possible which I guess is not a problem at all to the working.

As said, mentally still works and if you can do a whisper/vibrating words as quiet possible then even better. I have had to do this myself and faced no problems in feeling the energy and having the results I wanted.

It helps to fully focus on feeling the vibrations.

TopoftheAbyss wrote:but a mix of whisper and vibrations is possible which I guess is not a problem at all to the working.

Nope, not a problem. Good luck!

Stormblood wrote: And what do you think a disturbance in the power output part-way through a working would do to said working?

It would just have less power , (not ideal), but wouldn’t be nullified. The reason planetary squares can easily be nullified is because they’re tied in heavily with numbers. It’s like a roller coaster on the tracks and if you use the wrong number they go off tracks and it’s over. Death to the working. The way squares work is strategic use of numbers to amplify energy quickly based on metaphysics. If you miss a day or vibrate the wrong number, the strategy being used is done. You can’t continue, youre off the tracks now but the energy raised prior to the fuck up doesn’t just disappear. It’s still there. That’s probably a confusion some people have. But key with squares is numbers so even with mental vibrations or soft whisper and mental vibrations, if the numbers are used right, then we’re still on the tracks and the ride is still going.

hailourtruegod wrote: There is no need to stop a working especially if one is already far into it. Energy is raised regardless in this situation. The results will still manifest and I speak from experience.

Very true, it’s witchcraft 101. Raise energy, program, direct. A working is only ruined if one of these isn’t present. (With planetary squares, as I said if the numbers are off, then the energy can’t be raised further. Thus we’re missing step one and it’s ruined) but aside from that, mental vibrations or soft whispers added still raise energy and a person shouldn’t panic and discontinue the working. Especially if they’re a ways into it. They should continue.

Eric13 wrote:

Braun666 wrote: Thanks for pulling these up. He was very adamant on keeping his stance so I didn't bother: stating that mental vibrations are equal to actual chanting vibration. There's only so many times you can say something past a point you'll be repeating the same thing over and over. There's only so much time in a day.

Well, I never said that. So confusion...
But I explained myself rationally. In fact as I pointed out, the threads he posted actually prove my point. The only point I made was a day or two of mental vibrations won’t ruin a working. I explained why. Never said it was as powerful. This is why you’re confused. So I hope it’s cleared up now.

Sort this condescending attitude out though. I explained myself, something you couldn’t do only admitting over and over your thoughts were opinion and declaring yourself right. That doesn’t fly here. I backed my arguments and explained how it works. It’s not rocket science.

Okay.. In summation of this thread, we both agree that the power will be weaker if OP switches to a mental vibration halfway through the working. I declared myself right based on the JoS info, drew a conclusion based on the consistency that needs to be maintained for a working. A dump, and drop does not equate consistency. I guess you’ve taken a flexible approach whereas I’ve taken a strict one.

Re-assessing the whole argument, my own opinion was that the working would be ruined, due to a lack of energy raised. In fact I backed this up in my previous answer, with links. The 3 steps of witchcraft state that step one is energy raising, NOWHERE does it state on the website that raising energy with mental vibrations is one way to do so. So I’ve never done so myself.

If you or OP have been successful in feeling energy being raised with mentally vibrating words, then thats another matter and digress. Another member stated success doing this, so I guess there’s proof at this point.

My honest stance which I proved and explained in my previous replies was that OP would have had to raise energy in some other silent way, through methods stated on the JOS(Breathing exercises, tai chi, qigong, yoga), this energy raised would have to level the previous day, THEN proceeded with mental vibrations.

The above was not an “opinion”, but was to allow OP to not drop the consistency in the power of their working. Making it a straight line with no dumping.

My argument on whether it was totally ruined was that the drop in energy raised would be to low to go on. This was based on the facts I mentioned above.

The working having taken a drop, I’m holding the idea that this would be considered a skipped day, again based on the JoS info. If alternative methods had been confirmed on the site itself, or previous threads had mentioned such with HP’s approval, I’d be fully open arms on what you stated. But nowhere does it state changing a working can still lead to success on the site, it only mentions consistency and not skipping days. Which is why I stated this method falls under experimentation.

A member pointed out success and yourself included, so I can digress and retract though. My own recommendation (this is the approach mentioned on the JoS) , in trying to keep the energy consistently the same is to raise energy first to make sure it is as strong as a previous day of vibrating the word, then proceeding to mentally vibrate the word of power. This is ensures the working doesn’t take a dump or drop halfway through.

If you have had success with the change, and other members too, then all the best. It’s the first time I’ve heard this mentioned, that mentally vibrating raises energy. It sure would be much weaker. The weakness in the raised energy in this way, I believe the dump and drop would be too low to be considered effective or acceptable, in the workings progression. Had OP started with this method then of course that’s another matter.

I myself wouldn’t take the risk and if privacy issues were extreme I would proceed with raising energy in a silent way first(tai chi, qigong, yoga, breathing exercises) then mentally vibrate. This is a more sure way. OP can take or leave what I’ve stated though since you and another member have had success with just the mental vibration.

How do I explain this? If you're building a building and you make a part of it weaker, it will get damaged fast. If it's a foundational part of the building, then the building may collapse altogether. Consider that here we're not talking about 1, 2, 10 or 20% weaker. We're talking about 90% weaker and more than that, depending on the person.

Nearly the same power output is needed everyday for this type of magickal workings (not squares). So, in order to avoid issues with the working, one would have to raise the same quantity of energies. This can be done with asana and pranayama too, of course. But shouldn't be done for more than a day, as that would cause the energies of the mantra to start dissipating. To make a comparison with astrology, keeping up with the same quality of energies is like the planet being direct. When you change the type of energies for a day, is like the planet going stationary. If you keep up the change for longer, then it's like the planet going retrograde. Some of the energies of the mantra will dissipate, until you "go direct" again.