Vegetable Garden

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:53 pm

So every year I have a vegetable garden in my backyard and I was wondering what would be the best plants to grow in the long run. I was thinking about how fertilizers affect the soil, and was thinking about the risk of using store bought fertilizer since I didn't know if stuff was put in that could be toxic to us. Long story short I don't put it behind kikes to try to poison foods we grow at home :oops: . So I'm wondering about plants that have a good nutritional value for better eating and can be good fertilizer once the plant is dead from the winter. I do use cow manure in my garden to start it off (actual fresh manure, not the store bought stuff :D ). I apologize if this is a seemly stupid question, but I want a good nutritional balance per say for the soil without using store bought stuff. I also grow peas, corn, carrots, and potatoes in my garden if that helps.

Thanks!

T.A.O.L.
Posts: 144

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby T.A.O.L. » Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 am

Hey, do you have some space left over to grow plants for this purpose?

Also, have you looked into combined growing of various plants?

I did buy a book last winter (its not english though) that talks about recipes for natural homemade insect repellant and the use of plant extracts on water to boost the plants immune system.
I can translate and post a bit of that if youre interested.
I do not have a lot of time at the moment though.
"Good nutrition is the key to wisdom"
~ Lydia is awesome :D ~
"Dont put on your skin what you can't eat"

Truth4ever
Posts: 78
Location: earth-cusp of Satans reign

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truth4ever » Thu May 17, 2018 5:53 am

hello. i've been reading on and off for a few years about gardening. i recommend looking up organic gardening online and at your local library. i have a good book called "The complete compost gardening guide" this would help you make great plant food ether inside or outside or both.
your library would be a great place to start and most books you want to own can be found on amazon. if you get different pots you can add more plants including tomatoes.
hope that helps!

Hail Satan

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Stormblood
Posts: 1264
Location: Academy of the Dragon, Dinas Ffaraon

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Stormblood » Thu May 17, 2018 5:56 pm

If I may, try not to overwork the soil or it will become depleted of important nutrients and thus be on the same very low nutritional levels of commercial-grade products.

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:59 pm

Yes I do have room for extra plants for this exact purpose. With the combined growing I am putting in chives around my potatoes and other plants to help with controlling insects. As for the book that would be great :D . If you want I can do the translating myself to make it easier for you.

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:04 pm

i recommend looking up organic gardening online and at your local library. i have a good book called "The complete compost gardening guide" this would help you make great plant food ether inside or outside or both.


Thank you for the advise. I will look up the book you recommended. :D

T.A.O.L.
Posts: 144

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby T.A.O.L. » Fri May 18, 2018 7:02 am

Truthseeker666 wrote:Yes I do have room for extra plants for this exact purpose. With the combined growing I am putting in chives around my potatoes and other plants to help with controlling insects. As for the book that would be great :D . If you want I can do the translating myself to make it easier for you.


Thing is with translating from my language to english and the other way around, is the sentence order. Aside from that there are words that may be translated with the wrong meaning.
I would appreciate the help but that means Id have to take pictures of the book.
"Good nutrition is the key to wisdom"
~ Lydia is awesome :D ~
"Dont put on your skin what you can't eat"

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Sat May 19, 2018 3:12 am

Stormblood wrote:If I may, try not to overwork the soil or it will become depleted of important nutrients and thus be on the same very low nutritional levels of commercial-grade products.


Definitely. I know that over working the soil is really not a good thing to do especially in the long run. The dirty thirties are definitely an example what happens if you do :? .

Centralforce666
Posts: 121

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Centralforce666 » Tue May 22, 2018 9:40 pm

Traditional faring practices used a 4 plot rotation system.. Meaning that the plot only had crops in it once every 4 years..

The other three years are for rest, compost and aerating the soil..

Manure, household compost and other semi-rotten vegetable matters, blood and bone etc. fertilisers are better than those which are various mineral nitrates (ammonium nitrate etc.).

The nitrates create plants which grow quickly and get to quite a size but with low nutritional value (particularly as land plots are used every year for a crop).

Organic material feeds the soil which feeds the plants.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

If you want a peaceful life, prepare for war

T.A.O.L.
Posts: 144

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby T.A.O.L. » Mon May 28, 2018 10:09 pm

Oh so that is a different story in my history book too @centralforce - in my history book it said that they used to farm 3/4 of the 4 fields and let the other field rest for 1 year.

But I guess it makes sense that it takes longer than 1 year to restore.


I had almost forgotten that I was supposed to post something from that book. If it takes too long you might have to remind me @Truthseeker666
"Good nutrition is the key to wisdom"
~ Lydia is awesome :D ~
"Dont put on your skin what you can't eat"

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:51 am

Centralforce666 wrote:Traditional faring practices used a 4 plot rotation system.. Meaning that the plot only had crops in it once every 4 years..

The other three years are for rest, compost and aerating the soil..

Manure, household compost and other semi-rotten vegetable matters, blood and bone etc. fertilisers are better than those which are various mineral nitrates (ammonium nitrate etc.).

The nitrates create plants which grow quickly and get to quite a size but with low nutritional value (particularly as land plots are used every year for a crop).

Organic material feeds the soil which feeds the plants.


Thanks! That very much helps :D. That does explain why I've been finding a lot of nitrates in soil mixes and stuff also. :)

Out of curiosity does the carbon from the manure for example affect the photosynthesis process since the plant needs an intake of CO2 but could the carbon from the soil act as a source or is that for the decomposing bacteria? Also I know that the three elements that are recommended for plants are nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium. I know that phosphate is needed to make ATP for the plants for carrying out photosynthesis, but is the potassium more of an excess element? I know it is used to create a bigger yield but does it actually benefit the plant or no? If there are more beneficial elements/compounds for my plants please let me know.

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Truthseeker666
Posts: 12
Location: At a hot spring

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Truthseeker666 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:54 am

T.A.O.L. wrote:I had almost forgotten that I was supposed to post something from that book. If it takes too long you might have to remind me @Truthseeker666


No worries. Take the time you need. :D

Centralforce666
Posts: 121

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby Centralforce666 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:35 pm

Carbon is in everything.

Life in earth is based in Carbon and Water as the two principal structural foundations of every molecule.

Carbon is not nourishing however it is just required.

Too much carbon might "drown out" other important nutritive components of the soil tho so don't go dumping bags of ash on your plants. But what is in manure would be fine especially considering the other components thereof.

Required potassium levels would depend highly on the type of plant you are trying to grow. Potassium is a water holder, like sodium and so absorbed potassium will help plants take up and keep water. Excess potassium will hold water in the soil and prevent its taking up by plants. Too much or too little is likely to be detrimental in either direction but as to the exact ratio I cannot comment as every plant differs in its mineral needs.

Nitrogen is more abundant than CO2 in the air around us and as by products of denatured proteins in the soil metabolised by the organisms therein. Other than bigger plants that are less nutrient dense, I wouldn't recommend adding this to anything except through natural means - aerating the soil before planting, earthworms etc.

Phosphate is one of those things that is likely to be present or not so present in the soil depending on how rich the soil is to start with, how much you've grown there, what lives in it etc. ATP molecules require 3 phosphate atoms which is a minute amount in consideration of the remainder of the molecule being the DNA base Adenine (comprised of protein mainly). DNA replication actually requires far more phosphate as these form the bridges between the bases, requiring one phosphate atom per base link in the linear joins (not across the space of the helix).

So yes, phosphate is an essential ingredient.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

If you want a peaceful life, prepare for war

T.A.O.L.
Posts: 144

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby T.A.O.L. » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:54 pm

Finally, here is the information I said I would translate. Lets start off with a few quotations from the first chapters of the book. The title of this book and other information will be at the bottom of this post.

Before I write it I would like to add, before it gets somewhere stuck in between translated parts..
That more regular addition of compost and fertilizer to the plants, when they need it or just in a season even halfway is sometimes recommended to give plants a boost especially if theyre grown in pots. It is not limited to like you have to do it in autumn before winter or in the spring before planting or sowing.

-----------------------------------
"What are plant extracts? They are liquid preparations that exclusively are made with plant parts and water. Plant parts (from root to flower) are during a certain time soaked in cold or boiling water. You only need to sieve and, if need be, thin them with water to spray or pour them on your plants."

"This book is written in France, partly as a social statement and as a reaction on the France ban on the sale of nettlefertilizer and other natural alternatives for pesticides, that early 2000 was activated. Plant extracts were unable to be sold, because they had to agree with the same strickt rules as the chemical pesticides. By lack of financial and technical means were the small manufacturers (some of these will speak in this book) unable to meet with the laws requirements. The 'nettlefertilizer-war' took years, till in 2014 the plantextracts gained the lawful status of biostimulants. Since then it is sold in stores again and can research to plant extracts gain ground easier."

"Biostimulants
Often it is thought unrightfully that plant extracts, especially fermented extract of nettles, are organic food for the plants. This persevering idea is incorrect. Extracts stimulate the growth but are no fertilizer. The most plantextracts are in fact biostimulants. This sight is essential in our approach and asks too look with a different view to plantnourishment.

Plantextracts improve not alone the growth, but also the resistance of the cared for crops. This increased resistance is also called the 'elicitor-effect'. Elicitors are substances that stimulate the defense mechanism of the plant. It starts with the soil, nutrientsubstrate for all plants, where the eliciotrs the micro-organisms reactivate. So you understand better why plantextracts have more effect on grounds that have been common or accepted cultivated than on soils where plants and crops have been grown on biological ways. The worse the soil, the more chance there is to see positive effects!

Our action is not on the creed 'the plants are fertilized to produce more' but on the vision 'people apply elements that support the soil life and form the base for healthy plant nourishment'. So you increase the growth and improve the resistance of the crops.. and, en passant, the productivity of the cultivation.

Care and attention
Plantextracts are living matter and must be treated as such. Nothing looks more like the making of plant extracts, in particular a fermented extract, as the making of wine. ..."

"To prevent or cure?
It is important for extracts that work stimulating to apply them as early as possible, or in other words preventive. Rather, extracts that are meant to cure a disease, are only used as when the disease has manifested. This is the opposite of the logic that is applied in the regular farming and is comparable to the Chinese Medicine: you act mostly to prevent disease."

"Local resources
An other important principle is that we preferably act with what we have available and what fits in our biotope, even if we have access to biological resources. It does not seem logical to us to replicate a well-balanced environment with the help of plants or extracts that are made somewhere on the other side of the world. Besides we do not have any idea of the way in which pesticides like rotenon and pyrethrine is won from plants that have been grown or cultivated somewhere far away."

"No agressive resources
With extracts you bring the complex elements in the soil that may be missing in your garden. This is also what you strive for when you use compost or mulch. The elements that you enrich through plantextracts are not agressive, because they've been thinned before applying."

"Not all at once
It is seducing to use extracts with healing actions and to use extracts with stimulating actions at the same time. In one treatment you would cure everything. Sadly it does not work that way. A sick plant that is treated, has a temporary setback. She is then not able to take in the mineral compounds of a stimulating extract. Thus it is useless to use these simultaniously. A few days later it is possible. It is important to act through the following order: first cure and then nourish. "

"Do take in mind that it is often necessary to quickly spray again. This goes for instance for decoctions or teas of Tansy, Absinth (Artemisia Absinthium), Rhubarb and Sambucus if these are applied as repellant.
..
Also it is not necessary to dress like a cosmonaut, even gloves are usually not even necessary. If instead you use chemical products, it is important to protect yourself well, even if it was to avoid the mist that can be blown in your face through the wind."



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ill leave this post at this for now. Ill translate further later. This is just some info I think should be added aside from how to make these & properties of some of the plants used.

The book is called 34 planten om mee te tuinieren, translated by Janneke tops and Brigitte Venturi from the French book Purin d'ortie & cie. Les plantes au secours des plantes written by Bernard Bertrand, Jean-Paul Collaert, Eric Petiot .
"Good nutrition is the key to wisdom"
~ Lydia is awesome :D ~
"Dont put on your skin what you can't eat"

T.A.O.L.
Posts: 144

Re: Vegetable Garden

Postby T.A.O.L. » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:22 pm

Post 2#
How to make fermented plant extracts?

Again, quotes from the chapter of the book about this. I would have translated the whole thing but that just takes time and not every sentence is important.

========

Chapter 2 Page 30:
"With making fermented plant extracts, not only the plant parts will be active, but also the bacteria and countless enzymes that stay on the leaves. The fermentation itself is an intruiging process of the preparation. Think that there are the same amount of differences between a plant and its fermented extract, as between grain and bread, or milk and cheese. To get fermented extracts, you let plant parts sit in water for a couple of days till they ferment. You make a good fermented extract by letting the fermentationproces take place in a natural but controlled manner and by checking the quality of the water, the temperature and the material of the container.

Water
Preferably we work with rainwater (15-35C). In the winter it is wise to make the water lukewarm by taking the container inside and put it down there. Above the 35C the enzymes get damaged, which is not favorable. To catch rainwater you can place (a non rusted) container undearneath a rain pipe. Be aware of roofs of in example corrugated iron: they may have unwanted dirt on them (chalk, rust, etc.). With different regions, the acidity of the water can differ. With a pH-value higher than 5 there is no reason to be worried. Underneath the 5 you can add a small hand (clean!) woodashes. Tap water has as disadvantage that it may contain too much chalk (hard water). Chalk can plug the stomata of the leaves which makes it unable to take in any substance. Chalk also changes the pH-value. ...

Tip: If the pH-value is higher than 7, add natural vinegar; a quarter of a litre vinegar for 30 liter water. In that way the acidity can lower with 1 point.

Source or ditchwater should also be checked for chalk- and nitrate levels. In principe, water that is not drinkable is also not suited for extracts. Clean, unpolluted ditchwater can be given to plants just fine. ... "


Page 31:
"Container
Use a large container that has more volume than the amount you want to make (in example 15 liter to make 10 liter fermented exract), and that is preferably high, but not too wide. So you can submerge he plants well. Do not hesitate to make a lot because a fermented extract can be stored for a long time. ... The bigger the volume, the more stable the process stays. The fermentation is not slowed and the temperature remains more constant, because the mass serves as thermic inertion. ..

Rather choose for plastic than for wood. Experience learns that wooden barrels are too heavy and not completely waterproof. If they are dry they start to leak. With new barrels the tannins relaese and penetrate the extract. .."

Page 32:
"Do not use any metal buckets unless they are made of stainless steel (i.e. the buckets beekeepers use). "

-----------------
I just noted they have a step by step system which is spread out over the pages. Anything that is not described here will be added as a quote.
Here in order:

1) Weigh the amount of plant fiber carefully and cut them in pieces.
2) Preferably work with rain water. If you use tap-, source- or ditchwater, check the pH-value first.
3) Fill a vat with the chopped plant parts. Then add the water.
4) Stir the mixture every day for a few minutes. If there are no bubbles rising anymore, the fermentation process is done.
5) Filter the fermented extract. With this you prevent obstruction during spraying or pouring.
6) The result: A fresh extract, ready for direct use.
7) Keep the extracts that you do not use immediately in non-see-through containers, and in a dark, cool space.

-----------------

Page 32:
"Amount of plants
Fill threequarter of the container with fresh picked plants that you chop/cut up first. ... The meaning of the chopping is that the active compounds release easier: the vacuole (anfractuosities in the plant cells that can store nutriënts) break open in this way so that the nutriënts release. This step is essential to make good extracts and absolutely necessary for for example Sambucus, Fern, Absinth, Sage, Rhubarb, Lavender and other plants. Count about 1 kg of fresh plants for 10 liter water, sometimes less. If you use dried plants, count 100/200 grams on 10 liter water. The exact amounts differ per plant and are spoken about further in the book.

Fresh or dried plant parts?
With a stock dried plants you can make extracts outside the harvestseason - think about Equisetum arvense or Fern in particular, because these paltns are in the springtime very useful. Also a stock of dried plants is welcome if you are faced with an acute problem and you do not have the time to harvest the necessary plants first.
But eventually the fresh plants have preference, because the extract of these influences the growth of the treated plants more effectively. This relates with the preservation of the chemical structure of the water molecules, that partly get lost in dried plants."

=======================
Continuation next post
"Good nutrition is the key to wisdom"
~ Lydia is awesome :D ~
"Dont put on your skin what you can't eat"


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