Why are we allowed to eat animals?

well, feel free not to eat animal products. If it works for you - good :)

well, feel free not to eat animal products. If it works for you - good :)

It is unnecessarily paying for sentient beings to be tortured though.

...

This concept derives from the enemy program, which manipulates the “weak” part of people, the emotional part, in order to harm them.

Eating animals is natural and an important part of survival. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply deluded, disrupting the natural order of things.

Greetings,

The following necessary nutrients are only found in animal products;
Vitamin A, Vitamin B6 (pyridoxal), Vitamin B12, Vitamin D3, EPA, DHA, Vitamin K2, Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine, CoQ10, Cholesterol, Heme iron, Zinc (bioavailable), Selenium (bioavailable), Iodine (reliable form), CLA, Collagen, Gelatin, Hydroxyproline, Proline, Glycine, Elastin, Chondroitin, Glucosamine.

It is unnecessarily paying for sentient beings to be tortured though.

I think you've watched one of those vegan documentaries. We humans don't torture or hate animals. On the contrary, our ancestors were thankful for animals and made sure not to waste a single part. They used the animals from head to tail.

The animals in the documentary are in that sad state because of factory farming, a direct result of capitalism.

When we treat animals with love, give them space, and feed them their natural diet, we get more nutritious food in return.

We can't thrive without animal products. You are not going to die, but thriving and surviving are two different things.

Please watch videos about the living conditions of animals on regenerative farms. You will see that they are not tortured.

I have written many explanations about this. It is necessary to consume animal products for several specific nutrients that are impossible to get from plants. And there are several severe deficiencies which eventually lead to death.

One is B vitamins, which are used in the process of using ATP energy in every cell in your body. Without it, eventually all cells have no energy and are unable to do anything. This eventually leads to death.

Another problem is the myelin coating on the outside of all of your nerves, which are basically the same as the plastic insulation on the outside of a wire. This breaks down over time and will not regenerate with a vegan diet. It comes from animal fat. So eventually there are many problems with the nerves all throughout the body with electrical signals not getting where they are supposed to go to, because it is like having wires with no insulation touching and shorting out to each other. Your brain cells are also mostly made from animal fat, and with a starvation diet of not enough animal fat, eventually the brain actually physically shrinks as the fat from the brain is broken down. An example is "rabbit starvation" where if you are in the wild with no food and the only thing to eat is rabbits, even if you are eating them every day, you will still starve and die because there is no fat in rabbit meat. This fat is necessary.

Another example is calcium. It is true that dark green leaves like kale and spinach contain some calcium. But the molecule that the calcium atom is contained in is a form that we are not able to digest or absorb. So it doesn't matter how much calcium is in 100 leaves of kale if you are absorbing none of it.

Animal products are absolutely necessary. If for some reason you don't want to eat meat, it will go the longest way to helping your health and nutrition if you at least eat eggs every day or almost every day. An egg is not 100% of what you need, but it is most of it. And there is no moral reason to not eat it. You can get one from free range happy chickens, and especially better if you are in a place where there is a farm near by with fresh eggs.

Eggs, milk, and fish is a good diet. It has most of what you need. Even just eggs and milk is far better than nothing.

Animal products are absolutely necessary. If for some reason you don't want to eat meat, it will go the longest way to helping your health and nutrition if you at least eat eggs every day or almost every day. An egg is not 100% of what you need, but it is most of it. And there is no moral reason to not eat it. You can get one from free range happy chickens, and especially better if you are in a place where there is a farm near by with fresh eggs.

Eggs, milk, and fish is a good diet. It has most of what you need. Even just eggs and milk is far better than nothing.

Yeah, eggs are one of those 'superfoods'. For anyone who doesn't know, the reason why is if we think of it this way - eggs contain all of the nutrients that are required to produce a living, breathing chick, who grows into a chicken. They are packed full of a lot of nutrients, so eating them every day is really important. I also learnt, which I believe to be true, that with a bit of debate between eating raw eggs versus cooked eggs, cooked is great, obviously and of course, but if eating raw eggs, we should make certain that they have been pasteurised and also are organic, but if in doubt, just stick to cooking eggs properly. Remember that the superfood eggs contain all of the necessary nutrients to create a living creature.

As for Animals being slaughtered, or killed because "slaughter" sounds like something out of the Saw series, a quick and painless killing is much better. As it was mentioned before about using worms for fishing, killing even them quickly and painlessly so that they, and their Soul, don't suffer is much better. Animals' Souls reincarnate quicker and easier, because they are free compared with Humans, so the quick and painless kill will not transfer to their next lives and build-up like the karmic seeds mentioned, which helps to prevent problems. Seriously - go watch some brutal Animal/wildlife documentaries of a lion sneaking up on and leaping onto a gazelle and sinking their claws and teeth into it, or go observe a pet cat teasing and tormenting their pigeon prey. Species of bird nest atop a crazily-high steep cliff or sea stack, and freshly-hatched chicks, when trying to find Mum, probably will bounce off the edge on their way down and plummet to their deaths. This is Nature. It's not moral nor immoral; it is amoral.

Animals can die from heart attack via fear or too much adrenaline and oxygen being released and the inability to 'burn off', so to speak, the increased release to help them move quickly and be more alert, if they are caught in the claws and jaws of a predator - that's brutal, honest, real, true, amoral Nature; Humans are supposed to be much more humane - a quick and painless killing of an Animal certainly is not the prolonged torture and suffering of Animals to death. Besides, if Animals were not killed for food, then they must be culled for overpopulation... which might as well be eaten anyway, which is much more respectful than letting the corpse rot and waste, and also so as to get essential nutrients from them - maybe have a celebration and hearty meal, and do a ritual for the Soul of the killed/culled Animal.

Watch brutal documentaries; observe pet cats; know, realise and accept that killing and eating Animals properly is Natural and necessary. It really is as simple as that. (That's not to say that I think I could find myself hunting Animals for food and butchering them. Just seeing things like that doesn't sit well with me. I much prefer them to be dead and plucked/skinned/whatevered already.)

Animals rip eachother to shreds in the most violent, horrific ways possible in nature all the time.

I haven’t seen anyone live with an animal free diet and be satisfied.

About the whole “animal torture and slaughter” just go to any local farm and see what actually goes on. And when an animal is slaughtered you usually knock it out or make it unconscious in some way and immediately slaughter it just so that it doesn’t suffer.

Same goes for hunting. When hunting you can’t just injure an animal and drag it with you. It’s better to land a perfect shot and have dogs (there are hunting breeds) that kill the animal you’re hunting.

And if you don’t want to eat meat, that is up to you, but please don’t neglect nutrition. Drink milk and eat eggs, and also fish. I highly suggest dairy products if you’re not lactose intolerant.

Greetings,

The following necessary nutrients are only found in animal products;
Vitamin A, Vitamin B6 (pyridoxal), Vitamin B12, Vitamin D3, EPA, DHA, Vitamin K2, Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine, CoQ10, Cholesterol, Heme iron, Zinc (bioavailable), Selenium (bioavailable), Iodine (reliable form), CLA, Collagen, Gelatin, Hydroxyproline, Proline, Glycine, Elastin, Chondroitin, Glucosamine.

You are incorrect about Vitamin A, Vitamin B6, EPA, DHA, Vitamin K12, Zinc, Selenium, Iodine, Proline, and Glycine. You are mostly correct about the rest. However, I do not see why that matters.

I think you've watched one of those vegan documentaries.

No, but I have watched vegan content.

We humans don't torture or hate animals.

Torture, yes.

On the contrary, our ancestors were thankful for animals and made sure not to waste a single part. They used the animals from head to tail.

That was true a lot of the time.

The animals in the documentary are in that sad state because of factory farming, a direct result of capitalism.

True.

When we treat animals with love, give them space, and feed them their natural diet, we get more nutritious food in return.

Also true.

We can't thrive without animal products. You are not going to die, but thriving and surviving are two different things.

That is true, but I do not have to thrive, especially if it requires harming innocent sentient beings.

Please watch videos about the living conditions of animals on regenerative farms. You will see that they are not tortured.

Okay, I will. I still find the slaughter a bit intuitively concerning, though.

Because we, literally, are not the same. There is more information about this, if you are interested, but it does not suit the topic at hand, so I will leave it at that.

We are are both biologically human, though, no? Could you link the resources which you are referring to?

I feel a moral conviction not to do so, and I was wondering why it is permissible, as they are conscious, and it is just unnecessary torture and harm against innocent beings.

You are incorrect about Vitamin A, Vitamin B6, EPA, DHA, Vitamin K12, Zinc, Selenium, Iodine, Proline, and Glycine. You are mostly correct about the rest. However, I do not see why that matters.

I would elaborate on each, but that is not the priority and it's your mindset that we should address first.

That is true, but I do not have to thrive, especially if it requires harming innocent sentient beings.

At the Temple of Zeus, our goal is to be the best version of ourselves. For this reason, every one of us wants to thrive in every aspect of life. Physically, mentally, and spiritually. And our ultimate goal is to reach the Godhead.

Eliminating animal foods completely is a sure recipe for health problems. Most of our ancestors ate 65-90% animal products.

Almost all strict vegans experience gut problems, bloating, constipation, brain fog, low energy, low sex drive, etc.

You are going to struggle with meditation when you have health problems.

If you don't want to eat meat for now, it's fine. Milk and eggs can get you a long way for starters.

If you decide to join our family, as you advance on this path, you'll realize how much of a prize this life is. And once this feeling settles, the desire to thrive and make the most out of life is the result.

Animals rip eachother to shreds in the most violent, horrific ways possible in nature all the time.

If we were to put 10 human on an island with zero food, the most likely outcome is obvious. It's very disturbing but every living being wants to survive.

We are are both biologically human, though, no? Could you link the resources which you are referring to?

There are many biological differences and their souls are completely different from ours. Please read our website thoroughly.

Welcome to our forums and I wish you the best.

You will die anyway.

If you've not completed enough advanced meditations.

You can survive just as well without meat.

Clearly, you can survive. You can survive on pizza and cola every day. Not all nutrients can be consumed from plants only.

Zeus began to exist? Who created Him?

His Mother, known as Nature.

They also killed each other and their young (lions).

OK.

Why not?

Becuase lions eat their cubs, as you said. Probably because for millions of years before we had a word for, and understanding of, what morality is, Animals didn't care about morality. Probably because they don't have any concept of it. Also look into Karma and consequence and related things. I won't do your homework for you.

Why IS there morality in factory farming, according HPZM?

Ask HPZM. Believe it or don't, he actually can speak/reply for himself. I can't speak/reply for him nor anyone but myself.

That is descriptive, not prescriptive. Ethics are understood to be prrescriptive.

ChatGPT is a great(!) tool. "How can I always play Devil's Advocate in forum posts, given the following text?". No? You didn't put that question into an AI chatbot? Pray tell.

Animals rip eachother to shreds in the most violent, horrific ways possible in nature all the time.

Muh bUt ThAt'S iMmOrAl! AnImAlS aRe So ImMoRaL tO eAcH oThEr FoR dOiNg ThAt! I say - go to the lion, the king of the jungle, and petition his roarship that the Natural Order of Things be changed. See how much of your life you come back with.

They also killed each other and their young (lions).

You were already told, and you ignored, in the VT chat that we compare ourselves to animals to only show things are natural but humans do things in a higher rational level. Why yes, humans kill their own too... thru the justice system (death penalty) or self defense if have to from small examples like someone breaking in to your house with ill intentions, to even more complex subjects like war/military ops.

You writing the above doesn't negate the fact that eating animals is natural. It just shows you dont have the cognitive ability to think rationally and your brain just stops where you did. This isnt an insult but an obvious observation anyone here can easily see. Im just helping it be more clear by breaking it down.

All it takes is to think rational when seeing seeing how humans do things different than animals but not disconnected to higher reason why it's done.

If you want to talk about actual disconnections from the animal world then why dont you ask about spiritual matters? Or even about why we see it important to be rational towards other humans.

Your questions are, at best, lower octave matters that 3rd worlders cant come to comprehend on their own.

I would like to also add -

That is descriptive, not prescriptive. Ethics are understood to be prrescriptive.

If things are prescriptive, then who prescribed them? Who wrote the prescription for us to swallow - and do we have to swallow them, and if so, then why do we have to? Humans are of Nature; we are Natural and we are created by Nature, so there is Nature within us, of us, a part of us. Naturally, Animals eat Animals, so what is the problem? Animals rip Animals to shreds (as I also have said before, myself) - so what is the problem there? What makes us killing an Animal "unnecessary torture", especially when we do it humanely and not like abrahamists and other lower Animals? Where did the prescriptions come from, and why, and for what reasons?

Animals killing Animals for food is Natural. It always happened, it always happens, it will always happen - there won't be any "lion lying with lamb" nonsense. Humans are of Nature; killing Animals for food is Natural; likewise, Animals killing Humans for food is Natural. Nature is brutal.

I want to add about what I am thinking about it in regards to morals being included, but I don't know if I would direct your thoughts and answers or not (assuming your replies are your own genuinely). I have it waiting to reply.

What is your ideal diet to live by? Is it sustainable on a massive scale?

Judging by the questioning pattern - none. And he does not care.

The fact of the matter is - he came here to argue for the sake of it.

If you've not completed enough advanced meditations.

Then just go complete all the advanced meditations and don't eat meat; you would still be immortal, no?

Clearly, you can survive. You can survive on pizza and cola every day. Not all nutrients can be consumed from plants only.

Correct.

His Mother, known as Nature.

Who or what created nature?

OK.
Becuase lions eat their cubs, as you said. Probably because for millions of years before we had a word for, and understanding of, what morality is, Animals didn't care about morality. Probably because they don't have any concept of it. Also look into Karma and consequence and related things. I won't do your homework for you.

That is a faulty understanding of karma. Please look into it like you told me to.

Ask HPZM.

How?

Believe it or don't, he actually can speak/reply for himself.

Wow.

I can't speak/reply for him nor anyone but myself.

Correct.

ChatGPT is a great(!) tool.

It can be, I suppose, but I prefer Grok.

"How can I always play Devil's Advocate in forum posts, given the following text?".

???

No? You didn't put that question into an AI chatbot? Pray tell.

Why would I have done that?

Muh bUt ThAt'S iMmOrAl! AnImAlS aRe So ImMoRaL tO eAcH oThEr FoR dOiNg ThAt! I say - go to the lion, the king of the jungle, and petition his roarship that the Natural Order of Things be changed. See how much of your life you come back with.

Fair.

Judging by the questioning pattern - none. And he does not care.

I am unsure. That is why I am asking the question lol.

The fact of the matter is - he came here to argue for the sake of it.

False. I came here to ask a question. Please stop accusing me of things which are untrue.