Which planet mercury or venus rule speech ?

I'd say that there's a little bit of a cross-over here in the domains of Mercury and Venus, but by and large speech and communication are a Mercury thing. You may notice that your own communication style is quite like the sign that your natal Mercury is located in. Venus is a social and gracious planet, and communication is intrinsic to being social and gracious, so that's one source of that overlap. That's why when you have someone with a Mercury-Venus aspect in their chart, they tend to be well-spoken, polite, and skilled at expressing themselves creatively. Another source of this overlap is Venus ruling Libra, the airy sign of diplomacy and social niceties - of which communication is again very key.

Powstanie Pogańskie wrote:

I'd say that there's a little bit of a cross-over here in the domains of Mercury and Venus, but by and large speech and communication are a Mercury thing. You may notice that your own communication style is quite like the sign that your natal Mercury is located in. Venus is a social and gracious planet, and communication is intrinsic to being social and gracious, so that's one source of that overlap. That's why when you have someone with a Mercury-Venus aspect in their chart, they tend to be well-spoken, polite, and skilled at expressing themselves creatively. Another source of this overlap is Venus ruling Libra, the airy sign of diplomacy and social niceties - of which communication is again very key.

so both of them influence speech ? Could i assume mercury rules the analytical or technical aspect of speech(the content ) and venus the spontaneous or intuitive/emotional connection aspect of speech ?

Mercury and Venus both represent in their rulership, the masculine and feminine crossover in the human soul (suggesting speech and intelligence is most definitely a thing of both genders and energies) They are the only planets with dual ruler signs.

I would say the Taurus side of Venus is what rules the vibration portion of speech and is "what is spoken of" . This relates to Taurus' diaposition sign being Aquarius which as an Air sign of Uranus is related to magnetism and bringing things together such as the energies being raised through vibrations. The Taurus is the material component itself whereas Aquarius is the relation of that component to other material or immaterial forms in the world. Like two cars happening to be near eachother on a certain day colliding with one another. Gemini which follows from Taurus represents all of the ideas in their absolute detail which spring from the material component itself, such as the details of a car and how to drive it. The car is Taurus but invariably also Gemini as one has to learn the details of it (but some details are probably irrelevant, like exactly how to uninstall and repair certain parts of the car like brake calipers which you can just leave to a mechanic. This explains why Mutability, Cadent signs and so on are "weaker" in a sense and sort of phatic)

When people have the process of coming together and feeling on the same pages with one another, this is when Libra energy becomes involved and is less to do with speech as it's to do with emotional interpretation and differing identities finding common ground with one another. Libra is language itself in a logical mental sense, whereas Taurus is the material expression of that language like a t shirt with a logo or a funny quote which someone may or may not identify with when they look at you. When you're in a bar watching football for example, such things will be conversation starters for certain people and they will talk in a local dialects and things. The two signs as such go hand in hand, but they denote different things in reality.

Mercury Gemini and Virgo are a harder base to understand this and require a lot of study into it as their understanding of how they work is "in the details". The thing with brake calipers also concerned Virgo but I couldn't convey this clearly. Gemini and Virgo both being mutable signs though, should make sense that they are both more similar to one another and not differing like Libra which is Cardinal and Taurus which is fixed. I think 3 qualities can be understood in how they work from the 2 planets Mercury and Venus which bear them in a strange way.

As a summary I think that both planets rule and co-rule different aspects of speech, Virgo of Mercury probably rules things like dialect as well to some extent along with Taurus (Earth signs are of physical speech, I guess is one rule you can follow in this). Gemini and Libra are the Air, mental detached component which runs through different peoples heads differently as they hear a president's speech for example. Libra's ascendancy in this 4 way split between signs as the only cardinal sign, represents the idea spoken itself which is what carries prime importance, is the key to influencing conversations and being properly sociable with different people at a moments notice.

It was given with the chakras that Venus was of the heart chakra but then also Mercury. Both are somewhat correct as both planets are "neuter" but I would say the heart chakra is more of Mercury on the notion that mutability is likewise to neuter whereas Venus has more of an emotional charge. Venus hence rules the throat which is "the seat of emotions".

13th_Wolf wrote:

Mercury and Venus both represent in their rulership, the masculine and feminine crossover in the human soul (suggesting speech and intelligence is most definitely a thing of both genders and energies) They are the only planets with dual ruler signs.

I would say the Taurus side of Venus is what rules the vibration portion of speech and is "what is spoken of" . This relates to Taurus' diaposition sign being Aquarius which as an Air sign of Uranus is related to magnetism and bringing things together such as the energies being raised through vibrations. The Taurus is the material component itself whereas Aquarius is the relation of that component to other material or immaterial forms in the world. Like two cars happening to be near eachother on a certain day colliding with one another. Gemini which follows from Taurus represents all of the ideas in their absolute detail which spring from the material component itself, such as the details of a car and how to drive it. The car is Taurus but invariably also Gemini as one has to learn the details of it (but some details are probably irrelevant, like exactly how to uninstall and repair certain parts of the car like brake calipers which you can just leave to a mechanic. This explains why Mutability, Cadent signs and so on are "weaker" in a sense and sort of phatic)

When people have the process of coming together and feeling on the same pages with one another, this is when Libra energy becomes involved and is less to do with speech as it's to do with emotional interpretation and differing identities finding common ground with one another. Libra is language itself in a logical mental sense, whereas Taurus is the material expression of that language like a t shirt with a logo or a funny quote which someone may or may not identify with when they look at you. When you're in a bar watching football for example, such things will be conversation starters for certain people and they will talk in a local dialects and things. The two signs as such go hand in hand, but they denote different things in reality.

Mercury Gemini and Virgo are a harder base to understand this and require a lot of study into it as their understanding of how they work is "in the details". The thing with brake calipers also concerned Virgo but I couldn't convey this clearly. Gemini and Virgo both being mutable signs though, should make sense that they are both more similar to one another and not differing like Libra which is Cardinal and Taurus which is fixed. I think 3 qualities can be understood in how they work from the 2 planets Mercury and Venus which bear them in a strange way.

As a summary I think that both planets rule and co-rule different aspects of speech, Virgo of Mercury probably rules things like dialect as well to some extent along with Taurus (Earth signs are of physical speech, I guess is one rule you can follow in this). Gemini and Libra are the Air, mental detached component which runs through different peoples heads differently as they hear a president's speech for example. Libra's ascendancy in this 4 way split between signs as the only cardinal sign, represents the idea spoken itself which is what carries prime importance, is the key to influencing conversations and being properly sociable with different people at a moments notice.

It was given with the chakras that Venus was of the heart chakra but then also Mercury. Both are somewhat correct as both planets are "neuter" but I would say the heart chakra is more of Mercury on the notion that mutability is likewise to neuter whereas Venus has more of an emotional charge. Venus hence rules the throat which is "the seat of emotions".

You wrote this very Beautifully. :)

Jack wrote:

so both of them influence speech ? Could i assume mercury rules the analytical or technical aspect of speech(the content ) and venus the spontaneous or intuitive/emotional connection aspect of speech ?

I wouldn't be able to explain it with the depth of detail that 13th_Wolf provided, but I would consider this to be largely accurate, especially the analytical/technical aspects of speech being ruled by Mercury. Mercury governs communications of all stripes as well as one's ideas.

I've thought about it more, and in addition to Venus having an emotional component, given some evidence by its rulership over the throat chakra, I believe Venus holds sway over manners and social niceties. Social activities are in Venus' domain as noted in your original post, so going by the example you gave, Venus would govern the act of you being social and engaging with others, while Mercury would govern your communication, the ideas you express and the manner in which you express them. It's just also that the way in which one expresses themselves in communication is a key component of manners and proper social etiquette - thus, that's where Venus comes in. The importance of Venus ruling the sign of Libra also can't be overstated when discussing this particular topic, since Libra is an Air sign - the communicative element - and is the sign of diplomacy, polite exchange, and so on. One could argue that communication is important to any one of the affairs governed by each sign, but it does seem like it's particularly important to the affairs of the Air signs. Venus' association with good manners and polite speech can also be seen in some aspects, as a Venus-Mars aspect in one's chart can be indicative of one whose behavior is more crude; I have this aspect and it definitely applies to me in certain instances. I ostensibly "traumatized" my ex by referring to his professor as a cunt in front of like, five women.

13th_Wolf wrote:

Mercury and Venus both represent in their rulership, the masculine and feminine crossover in the human soul (suggesting speech and intelligence is most definitely a thing of both genders and energies) They are the only planets with dual ruler signs.

I would say the Taurus side of Venus is what rules the vibration portion of speech and is "what is spoken of" . This relates to Taurus' diaposition sign being Aquarius which as an Air sign of Uranus is related to magnetism and bringing things together such as the energies being raised through vibrations. The Taurus is the material component itself whereas Aquarius is the relation of that component to other material or immaterial forms in the world. Like two cars happening to be near eachother on a certain day colliding with one another. Gemini which follows from Taurus represents all of the ideas in their absolute detail which spring from the material component itself, such as the details of a car and how to drive it. The car is Taurus but invariably also Gemini as one has to learn the details of it (but some details are probably irrelevant, like exactly how to uninstall and repair certain parts of the car like brake calipers which you can just leave to a mechanic. This explains why Mutability, Cadent signs and so on are "weaker" in a sense and sort of phatic)

When people have the process of coming together and feeling on the same pages with one another, this is when Libra energy becomes involved and is less to do with speech as it's to do with emotional interpretation and differing identities finding common ground with one another. Libra is language itself in a logical mental sense, whereas Taurus is the material expression of that language like a t shirt with a logo or a funny quote which someone may or may not identify with when they look at you. When you're in a bar watching football for example, such things will be conversation starters for certain people and they will talk in a local dialects and things. The two signs as such go hand in hand, but they denote different things in reality.

Mercury Gemini and Virgo are a harder base to understand this and require a lot of study into it as their understanding of how they work is "in the details". The thing with brake calipers also concerned Virgo but I couldn't convey this clearly. Gemini and Virgo both being mutable signs though, should make sense that they are both more similar to one another and not differing like Libra which is Cardinal and Taurus which is fixed. I think 3 qualities can be understood in how they work from the 2 planets Mercury and Venus which bear them in a strange way.

As a summary I think that both planets rule and co-rule different aspects of speech, Virgo of Mercury probably rules things like dialect as well to some extent along with Taurus (Earth signs are of physical speech, I guess is one rule you can follow in this). Gemini and Libra are the Air, mental detached component which runs through different peoples heads differently as they hear a president's speech for example. Libra's ascendancy in this 4 way split between signs as the only cardinal sign, represents the idea spoken itself which is what carries prime importance, is the key to influencing conversations and being properly sociable with different people at a moments notice.

It was given with the chakras that Venus was of the heart chakra but then also Mercury. Both are somewhat correct as both planets are "neuter" but I would say the heart chakra is more of Mercury on the notion that mutability is likewise to neuter whereas Venus has more of an emotional charge. Venus hence rules the throat which is "the seat of emotions".

As a Gross Generalization then, Mercury is "What you say" and Venus is "How you say it". Aspects of ones speech ?

So Venus rules the throat chakra and Mercury rules the heart chakra? Or vice versa?

Jack wrote:

As a Gross Generalization then, Mercury is "What you say" and Venus is "How you say it". Aspects of ones speech ?

As a gg, that is along the right lines. Venus is more emotional.

Legendary Creature wrote:

So Venus rules the throat chakra and Mercury rules the heart chakra? Or vice versa?

Vice Versa, with Venus having more emphasis on the Throat chakra and Mercury moreso on the Heart chakra. Taurus which is Venus, is of the Throat. Libra of Venus actually has more to do with the Heart chakra in the dynamics of interaction, yet Libra's colour is blue which is the colour of the Throat chakra. Contrarily Taurus' colour is green the colour of the Heart chakra, and this represents how the masculine and feminine cross over and blend. Thus with Gemini and Virgo the mostly genderless mutables, we have the colours yellow and grey/Navy blue respectively which are the mixture colours in between the green and lighter blue.

https://templeofzeus.org/Signs.php

What I stated about Venus having more of a charge for the fact its energy works on Cardinal and Fixed lines whereas Mercury was less so in that it was only mutable: This is the reason why Venus has significance in Zevism from an astrological perspective, as Mars its energetic diapositor only co-rules its own fixed sign of Scorpio along with Aries. Venus rules its own fixed sign directly and this is why it is close with Mercury also in the understanding of the chakras. Venus has a material understanding (ruled by signs of the material elements) whereas Mars has an emotional understanding (ruled by signs of the emotional elements). But Venus does have an emotional charge at the same time, so it is seriously significant.

We can see the connection between Mars' Sacral chakra and Venus' Throat chakra through this astrological notion around the signs and qualities. Aries and Libra opposing one another, yet Taurus which opposes Scorpio is what the spark of a man and a woman tries to attain, which is why Taurus concerns sensuality and money, security. Most people do act along these lines if they are emotionally dominant and with emphasis on Cardinal and Fixed quality. This is the nature of humanity seen through the signs. Mars and Venus energies seen through the signs, come back into themselves when we move one up on both polarities, Aries into Taurus, and Libra into Scorpio, their respective rulers.

The feminine energies are dominant in this particular relationship with Venus having significance over Mars. This is a balancing principle for the other fact I spoke of of what we would assume to be the feminine Cancer and the 6th chakra, having instead a more masculine quality and being put below the Crown chakra which is ruled by the fiery masculine Jupiter and only co-ruled by Neptune. The dominance of the masculine principle which shows itself instead through the chakras.

13th_Wolf wrote:

Jack wrote:

As a Gross Generalization then, Mercury is "What you say" and Venus is "How you say it". Aspects of ones speech ?

As a gg, that is along the right lines. Venus is more emotional.

Legendary Creature wrote:

So Venus rules the throat chakra and Mercury rules the heart chakra? Or vice versa?

Vice Versa, with Venus having more emphasis on the Throat chakra and Mercury moreso on the Heart chakra. Taurus which is Venus, is of the Throat. Libra of Venus actually has more to do with the Heart chakra in the dynamics of interaction, yet Libra's colour is blue which is the colour of the Throat chakra. Contrarily Taurus' colour is green the colour of the Heart chakra, and this represents how the masculine and feminine cross over and blend. Thus with Gemini and Virgo the mostly genderless mutables, we have the colours yellow and grey/Navy blue respectively which are the mixture colours in between the green and lighter blue.

https://templeofzeus.org/Signs.php

What I stated about Venus having more of a charge for the fact its energy works on Cardinal and Fixed lines whereas Mercury was less so in that it was only mutable: This is the reason why Venus has significance in Zevism from an astrological perspective, as Mars its energetic diapositor only co-rules its own fixed sign of Scorpio along with Aries. Venus rules its own fixed sign directly and this is why it is close with Mercury also in the understanding of the chakras. Venus has a material understanding (ruled by signs of the material elements) whereas Mars has an emotional understanding (ruled by signs of the emotional elements). But Venus does have an emotional charge at the same time, so it is seriously significant.

We can see the connection between Mars' Sacral chakra and Venus' Throat chakra through this astrological notion around the signs and qualities. Aries and Libra opposing one another, yet Taurus which opposes Scorpio is what the spark of a man and a woman tries to attain, which is why Taurus concerns sensuality and money, security. Most people do act along these lines if they are emotionally dominant and with emphasis on Cardinal and Fixed quality. This is the nature of humanity seen through the signs. Mars and Venus energies seen through the signs, come back into themselves when we move one up on both polarities, Aries into Taurus, and Libra into Scorpio, their respective rulers.

The feminine energies are dominant in this particular relationship with Venus having significance over Mars. This is a balancing principle for the other fact I spoke of of what we would assume to be the feminine Cancer and the 6th chakra, having instead a more masculine quality and being put below the Crown chakra which is ruled by the fiery masculine Jupiter and only co-ruled by Neptune. The dominance of the masculine principle which shows itself instead through the chakras.

I’m still confused. These ToZ webpages say that the Mercury square is for empowering the throat chakra and that the Venus square is for empowering the heart chakra. Is this not the case?

https://templeofzeus.org/Mercury_Square.php

https://templeofzeus.org/Venus_Square.php

Legendary Creature wrote:

13th_Wolf wrote:

Jack wrote:

As a Gross Generalization then, Mercury is "What you say" and Venus is "How you say it". Aspects of ones speech ?

As a gg, that is along the right lines. Venus is more emotional.

Legendary Creature wrote:

So Venus rules the throat chakra and Mercury rules the heart chakra? Or vice versa?

Vice Versa, with Venus having more emphasis on the Throat chakra and Mercury moreso on the Heart chakra. Taurus which is Venus, is of the Throat. Libra of Venus actually has more to do with the Heart chakra in the dynamics of interaction, yet Libra's colour is blue which is the colour of the Throat chakra. Contrarily Taurus' colour is green the colour of the Heart chakra, and this represents how the masculine and feminine cross over and blend. Thus with Gemini and Virgo the mostly genderless mutables, we have the colours yellow and grey/Navy blue respectively which are the mixture colours in between the green and lighter blue.

https://templeofzeus.org/Signs.php

What I stated about Venus having more of a charge for the fact its energy works on Cardinal and Fixed lines whereas Mercury was less so in that it was only mutable: This is the reason why Venus has significance in Zevism from an astrological perspective, as Mars its energetic diapositor only co-rules its own fixed sign of Scorpio along with Aries. Venus rules its own fixed sign directly and this is why it is close with Mercury also in the understanding of the chakras. Venus has a material understanding (ruled by signs of the material elements) whereas Mars has an emotional understanding (ruled by signs of the emotional elements). But Venus does have an emotional charge at the same time, so it is seriously significant.

We can see the connection between Mars' Sacral chakra and Venus' Throat chakra through this astrological notion around the signs and qualities. Aries and Libra opposing one another, yet Taurus which opposes Scorpio is what the spark of a man and a woman tries to attain, which is why Taurus concerns sensuality and money, security. Most people do act along these lines if they are emotionally dominant and with emphasis on Cardinal and Fixed quality. This is the nature of humanity seen through the signs. Mars and Venus energies seen through the signs, come back into themselves when we move one up on both polarities, Aries into Taurus, and Libra into Scorpio, their respective rulers.

The feminine energies are dominant in this particular relationship with Venus having significance over Mars. This is a balancing principle for the other fact I spoke of of what we would assume to be the feminine Cancer and the 6th chakra, having instead a more masculine quality and being put below the Crown chakra which is ruled by the fiery masculine Jupiter and only co-ruled by Neptune. The dominance of the masculine principle which shows itself instead through the chakras.

I’m still confused. These ToZ webpages say that the Mercury square is for empowering the throat chakra and that the Venus square is for empowering the heart chakra. Is this not the case?

https://templeofzeus.org/Mercury_Square.php

https://templeofzeus.org/Venus_Square.php

There's no need for confusion, those squares were posted by the old priesthood at a time when the way these rulerships worked was unclear. The knowledge on the squares is fine, but Mercury and Venus both cross over one another in how they rule the chakras, and if you look at what the two planets represent and what they mean, it makes sense as well.

Mercury is to do with union in a relationship just as much as Venus. It is also significant on how one comes across, how they carry themselves and talk which is the details of attraction instead of the raw energy of it. They both cross over in understanding, they surely must both represent the significance of the 2 number and the masculine and feminine cross overs in their 2 ruling signs and in how they both work (relationships, impartial involving a second person).

If you do a Venus working to be attractive and find someone, but you are dumb (or more seriously if you don't understand the mind of this new person and how they think)- this will need a Mercury square to rectify otherwise you face the problem of not being able to communicate your issues, needs and desires properly with one another. In spiritual working terms this is why working with both squares is important for varying ways. If one has a strong Mercury but a weak Venus and looking into improving sociability, they would do the Venus working for example...

And vice versa, lol.

13th_Wolf wrote:

Legendary Creature wrote:

13th_Wolf wrote:

As a gg, that is along the right lines. Venus is more emotional.

Vice Versa, with Venus having more emphasis on the Throat chakra and Mercury moreso on the Heart chakra. Taurus which is Venus, is of the Throat. Libra of Venus actually has more to do with the Heart chakra in the dynamics of interaction, yet Libra's colour is blue which is the colour of the Throat chakra. Contrarily Taurus' colour is green the colour of the Heart chakra, and this represents how the masculine and feminine cross over and blend. Thus with Gemini and Virgo the mostly genderless mutables, we have the colours yellow and grey/Navy blue respectively which are the mixture colours in between the green and lighter blue.

https://templeofzeus.org/Signs.php

What I stated about Venus having more of a charge for the fact its energy works on Cardinal and Fixed lines whereas Mercury was less so in that it was only mutable: This is the reason why Venus has significance in Zevism from an astrological perspective, as Mars its energetic diapositor only co-rules its own fixed sign of Scorpio along with Aries. Venus rules its own fixed sign directly and this is why it is close with Mercury also in the understanding of the chakras. Venus has a material understanding (ruled by signs of the material elements) whereas Mars has an emotional understanding (ruled by signs of the emotional elements). But Venus does have an emotional charge at the same time, so it is seriously significant.

We can see the connection between Mars' Sacral chakra and Venus' Throat chakra through this astrological notion around the signs and qualities. Aries and Libra opposing one another, yet Taurus which opposes Scorpio is what the spark of a man and a woman tries to attain, which is why Taurus concerns sensuality and money, security. Most people do act along these lines if they are emotionally dominant and with emphasis on Cardinal and Fixed quality. This is the nature of humanity seen through the signs. Mars and Venus energies seen through the signs, come back into themselves when we move one up on both polarities, Aries into Taurus, and Libra into Scorpio, their respective rulers.

The feminine energies are dominant in this particular relationship with Venus having significance over Mars. This is a balancing principle for the other fact I spoke of of what we would assume to be the feminine Cancer and the 6th chakra, having instead a more masculine quality and being put below the Crown chakra which is ruled by the fiery masculine Jupiter and only co-ruled by Neptune. The dominance of the masculine principle which shows itself instead through the chakras.

I’m still confused. These ToZ webpages say that the Mercury square is for empowering the throat chakra and that the Venus square is for empowering the heart chakra. Is this not the case?

https://templeofzeus.org/Mercury_Square.php

https://templeofzeus.org/Venus_Square.php

There's no need for confusion, those squares were posted by the old priesthood at a time when the way these rulerships worked was unclear. The knowledge on the squares is fine, but Mercury and Venus both cross over one another in how they rule the chakras, and if you look at what the two planets represent and what they mean, it makes sense as well.

Mercury is to do with union in a relationship just as much as Venus. It is also significant on how one comes across, how they carry themselves and talk which is the details of attraction instead of the raw energy of it. They both cross over in understanding, they surely must both represent the significance of the 2 number and the masculine and feminine cross overs in their 2 ruling signs and in how they both work (relationships, impartial involving a second person).

If you do a Venus working to be attractive and find someone, but you are dumb (or more seriously if you don't understand the mind of this new person and how they think)- this will need a Mercury square to rectify otherwise you face the problem of not being able to communicate your issues, needs and desires properly with one another. In spiritual working terms this is why working with both squares is important for varying ways. If one has a strong Mercury but a weak Venus and looking into improving sociability, they would do the Venus working for example...

And vice versa, lol.

So if you were wanting to do a full chakra meditation using the planetary mantras, what chakra should you vibrate Shukraya into? The heart chakra or the throat chakra? Or does it matter?

Bump

Legendary Creature wrote:

So if you were wanting to do a full chakra meditation using the planetary mantras, what chakra should you vibrate Shukraya into? The heart chakra or the throat chakra? Or does it matter?

The chakra which Shukraya is related to on the forum/website. The mantra itself has separate connotations from the sign dynamics I go on about here and the chakras etc. The mantras actually relates to the energy from vibrations moving through and activating the chakras in certain ways which I am not experienced in just yet. Whichever one Shukraya rules and I'd say if you can't find one for the other chakra or its unclear you could use it for the other as well.