The art of Glamour - detrimental, or useful?

Soul Wings wrote:

I think it is important to feel yourself whether you are wearing makeup or not. Many women say they feel "naked" or not themselves going out without makeup. It has become so ingrained in our routines it feels out of place without it. It has become so fiercely associated with femininity, one could almost feel out of place or even "unfeminine" without it.
The history of makeup has been quite an interesting relationship. Ancient egyptians would wear eyeliner to announce status and use it for ritual. It may have given some practical benefit to reflect the sun. Around the world, royalty and aristocracy would powder their faces paler to feel more "virgin" and "pure", or youthful. There are also tribal and spiritual connections as well.

Many argue that makeup is simply to enhance what beauty they already have. They are trying to hide the fact it is mainly used by modern women to cover imperfections or dramatically alter the appearance of one's face. Most women know this truth and men are starting to realise as well. The word "glamour" is derived from both "grammar" - study of language and literature; and "grammatica" - occult learning tacked on. The magical association with the word didn't come till 100 years later - meaning things like "enchantment", "illusiory", "romantic", "alluring", and so on.

It's not necissarily hurting anyone, so is it harmful? Well, it doesn't have to be.

I'm going to open with some personal context. I never really wore makeup growing up because not only did school not allow it, but honestly, there was no one around me to bother impressing with it. I did not have much money either, and what little I had I spent on trying to combat my acne. However, back then I had abysmally low self esteem, I would look in the mirror - if I even looked in a mirror - and cry because of how overwhelmingly ugly I felt. (I don't hate my face anymore. Zevism really changed me.)
On the odd occasion I did wear makeup to perfect my skin - I got more looks from men. It is just simple fact that I got more attention when I wore it. In fact, they would stare. Barely anybody would look at me sideways if I did not wear it. (Or at least, I did not notice.) Someone with such bad self esteem such as mine back then, would easily come to the conclusion that the "easiest" and "safest" thing to do for their tiny little broken ego... is wear makeup to feel better.
We live in a very superficial society and in many people's cases, people will literally make conversation or comments about the imperfections on your face or skin. In some extreme cases, people are shaming skin colour so badly, it's driving people to literally bleach their skin.

Or how about the "you look tired" one liner everyone loves so much.

We've all seen the "take her swimming on the first date" memes I'm sure, or the "what's under that beard?" memes in retort. There is distrust from the trend of dramatic facial alteration to conform to ideals. But the truth is, it is being perpetuated by the very people that persecute. The passive aggressiveness centred around this frustration is only adding fuel to the fire on both sides.

If we think about it - makeup has the power to make one confident, feel beautiful, perhaps even like royalty. That is almost alchemical in definition. It is a creative expression. It is incredibly artistic and an artform, a craft in itself. You could even say it is an expression of hidden aspects of ourselves. Our face is the first thing someone is going to notice, and it is the boldest statement one can make.

Makeup can be symbolic. Red lipstick was symbolic of strength and recovery from the sufferagette movement. It was used as a statement of rebellion. It even motivated house-bound women to go out and get a job just to afford it. To many, it was also a symbol of hope and cheer during/after WWI. It is still a strong statement now - more of confidence and a sexy statement. Many have said it mimics the colour lips turn when aroused and that's part of why we find it so sexy!

So there are good things and bad things. Clearly, women do need to work on foundational self esteem, this would alleviate half of the problem. I am drawing a pretty big blank here, so if you guys can help with some solutions that would be great; I think one possible solution to solving the rest of it, is to publically encourage an environment where it's okay and even sexy to show your imperfections. This particular subject is not spoken about nearly enough - especially by men, who have an extremely, extremely large influence on this (whether women will admit it or not) and almost no knowledge of the reality. Many are clueless on just how heavily this weighs on women. We are spiralling further and further into a "catfish" society and we all have to try and intervene. Snapchat and instagram is the tip of the iceberg. Real time facial projection technology is being perfected and showcased. Fuck knows what else is in store.

Most girls cover themselves in make-up and perfume, but almost all of them are empty with a shitty character and nothing to give.
And for some reason many support LGBT probably without knowing what it is.
Instead many women wear makeup trying to look like little girls, trying to cover their imperfections.
In these two points I see a lot of self rejection and in some cases self hatred.

In my opinion, in order to be more attractive and with fewer imperfections, you should do yoga, meditation, maybe some training and above all work on our character, developing a unique and attractive personality.

This last one is my opinion, while the first part is very obvious, just go on istagram to understand.

Soul Wings wrote:

I guess everyone would have a different opinion on what they like on a woman. I personally find woman who don't use make up, more attractive, even ”ugly” women are way more attractive without it specially if they are strong and confident, I've always preferred an ugly truth over a beautiful lie... Not to say that some eye liner or some lipstick doesn't look good, but those women that completely paint their faces and become a totally new artificial person, for me personally I find it completely unattractive because it reflects their emptiness on the inside and self worth issues that usually stem from enemy programming. Some women doi it in such a bad way that makes them look totally unnatural and fake, I also bet that so much make up all the time is probably not healthy for the skin.

But I'm not sure a man , or possibly anyone else, would be qualified to have a say in regards to what you do to your face. I mean I like to workout to have nice muscles, trim my beard in a way that looks good, and put oil in it to look good and smell good. It makes me feel good and healthy. And it makes me feel prettier. I would be able to feel good about myself without it as well though which I have. But what I'm trying to say is that I would be a hypocrite if I were to say women should not wear make up, because I do things to my face and body that make me feel good with myself and look better and more attractive as well.
I like to see beauty. Both in me and in women. But if the beauty comes from an artificial mindset and fake sense of confidence then it becomes unattractive.

I would say if a man or woman have to take a fully artificial appearance to feel good about him/herself then there might be some psychological issues. But if one already has natural confidence and self worth then I guess there's nothing wrong in pursuing beauty through other things that make them feel and look even better, be it make up, perfume, nice clothes etc.

But this is just my opinion. I'm not sure if you should rely on what people have to say about it. I would personally meditate on it, if I were you and look for the answers in your mind as to which way YOU would feel better and healthier, and which way should you to treat your body, as we are all individual..

Personally I've never found girls with red lipstick attractive. I like natural lips.

Soul Wings wrote:

...

Necessary and good for any civilization, it is like art.

It depends on how much you use of it. If you use too much, it's too much, like any excess.

It also depends on what you use. Most commercial products contain harmful chemicals. I made a topic some time ago covering common harmful chemicals found in both hygiene products and cosmetics. People should use it as a guide before buying something or even making something on their own, which is the cheapest option overall.

Meteor wrote:

"You look tired."
I am, so spoil me, or let me go to bed. People only say this line to me when I actually am tired, so it never really bothered me.

Lucky!
I guess I've been lucky in the sense that I'm around mostly caring people so they know it's rude to just openly say things like that.

...one could go as far as to argue that wealth and beauty are just naturally things that go hand-in-hand.

I'm not sure if I 100% agree, but I can see why that could be. After all, wealthy people can afford all the cutting edge technology, skincare, aestheticians etc. You can see it just by watching celebrity skincare routines. They have aestheticians mix their own skincare cocktails!! It's insane!

The same goes for makeup as well, with the difference being that there's less of an upfront cost, and it's less shocking as it's a temporary transformation rather than permanent, and it's less risky; but if people become dependent on it, perhaps it's not really so different in the end.

This is exactly my observation and maybe a good articulation of what I was trying to say. Even though it's less risky, and yes, a different conversation altogether, there are definitely correlations or patterns there that need to be addressed.

...In a "utopian" future, where everyone who wants it has access to such things, the factor of whether it's unfair to others is eliminated, as everyone is free to do it if they want to. At that point, it's just people's own responsibility to make a choice they won't regret. Or is it? What if beauty standards are shaped by how people choose to look? What if all of it could be avoided, and almost everyone could be confident and appreciated without having to do any of that?
That was just a joke; as if that could ever happen. Get real.
That was also a joke. Who knows, maybe it could happen; but wouldn't that make beauty obsolete? Wouldn't that just be a waste?

Well I was thinking about this the night after I posted the thread. "Get real", yeah. I was half expecting first post to be along these lines. The last couple of my wordy threads have been pretty fanatical/fantastical or whatever, but action starts with an idea.
Also, side note. I found this when I was browsing memes the other day:

This is something else I want to touch on because photo retouching, catfishing etc was really only briefly tacked onto the end of my OP but it is the reason I'm so concerned for the future. Makeup is just the start of everything and the closest thing to "RL retouching" without plastic surgery.

In South Korea, 1 in 3 women and 1 in 10 men undergo plastic surgery, most commonly to change their jaw, nose, and/or eyelids. Due to it being so commonplace and effective at providing the results people want (meeting traditional Korean beauty standards), people who don't undergo it are much more likely to feel ugly and insecure about their looks, as they compare themselves to others.

While I know what you're talking about (I've listened to some korean people talk about it, Sherliza Moe for example), I think a lot of that came from the Kpop/celeb scene (and I believe historically certain features were favoured over others...? eg. lighter skin, but people get the wrong idea from that). I probably won't touch on it too much because I think that is a huge problem in Asians communities particularly but I'm not asian, so not my place to speak on. I am interested in learning more about this though.
I think plastic surgery is a different conversation entirely because it is a permanent choice and can be quite risky. This is definitely something I want to touch on as well though for sure. You can simply wipe off makeup completely with no harm done. "It's just makeup" haha. I remember my dentist offered to correct my jaw slightly. When he said he had to break it, I was like nope nope nope nvm.

Those who are naturally beautiful, have a natural advantage. Those who aren't, might want to seek an unnatural advantage to make up for what they lack. In a way, that too is only natural.

Yeah I never really thought about it this way. I've used makeup to help me look more "professional" and put together to get jobs so that is totally reasonable, but... hmm... why can't I feel professional and put together without it? I guess it's the whole "advantage" thing... if I won't, someone else will, so in a way, I'm kind of forced to. :/

BlackOnyx8 wrote:

I also bet that so much make up all the time is probably not healthy for the skin.

This is something I did not touch on in my OP that I should have.
Makeup clogs and shrinks pores to the skin as a foundation to make it look smooth. Pores are made for your skin to breathe. Constantly having makeup on is choking your skin and causing more problems than it solves. That's a good reason why I decided to stop. I see Stormblood also mentioned there can be harmful chemicals in it as well. Not to mention animal testing (a personal grievance of mine).

But I'm not sure a man , or possibly anyone else, would be qualified to have a say in regards to what you do to your face. I mean I like to workout to have nice muscles, trim my beard in a way that looks good, and put oil in it to look good and smell good. It makes me feel good and healthy. And it makes me feel prettier.

I'm glad to hear that. This is actually nice to read. About the men having a say thing. They will have a say whether it's justified or not, we've seen that historically. Right now, they are upset about the catfishing mostly, but they are not dealing with it the right way. Instead of encouraging a natural face with reason, compassion etc, they just say stuff like "wipe that shit off your face, you look like a hooker". I've legit had a guy I didn't even know have the audacity to say upfront I "caked my face" when I barely wore any makeup, (I think he was salty I didn't like him). Hell I'd show a pic if I could to make my case, lol. Anyway, like you say, it's very subjective.

Stormblood wrote:

Would it happen to be on this forum or is it back on Yahoo? I'm definitely curious about chemicals in makeup. I hear about specific ones every now and then but it's not comprehensive info usually.

HP. Zevios Metathronos wrote:

Necessary and good for any civilization, it is like art.

Sure, 100%... but (if you feel like commenting further/have time) how do you feel about the initial attraction/catfishing aspect of it? I feel like most men cannot tell what a woman's natural facial structure/skin texture is like without makeup these days because of how heavily it's altered (or "glamoured"). I find this interesting, because if you want to have children especially, things like this might be important to some people. Even women themselves use catfishing as a verb nowadays. Or, is it simply a matter of choosing to loving a woman, makeup or no makeup?

Is lack of vanity a bad thing?

Asking for a friend. :lol:

Soul Wings wrote:

I think it is important to feel yourself whether you are wearing makeup or not. Many women say they feel "naked" or not themselves going out without makeup. It has become so ingrained in our routines it feels out of place without it. It has become so fiercely associated with femininity, one could almost feel out of place or even "unfeminine" without it.
The history of makeup has been quite an interesting relationship. Ancient egyptians would wear eyeliner to announce status and use it for ritual. It may have given some practical benefit to reflect the sun. Around the world, royalty and aristocracy would powder their faces paler to feel more "virgin" and "pure", or youthful. There are also tribal and spiritual connections as well.

Many argue that makeup is simply to enhance what beauty they already have. They are trying to hide the fact it is mainly used by modern women to cover imperfections or dramatically alter the appearance of one's face. Most women know this truth and men are starting to realise as well. The word "glamour" is derived from both "grammar" - study of language and literature; and "grammatica" - occult learning tacked on. The magical association with the word didn't come till 100 years later - meaning things like "enchantment", "illusiory", "romantic", "alluring", and so on.

It's not necissarily hurting anyone, so is it harmful? Well, it doesn't have to be.

I'm going to open with some personal context. I never really wore makeup growing up because not only did school not allow it, but honestly, there was no one around me to bother impressing with it. I did not have much money either, and what little I had I spent on trying to combat my acne. However, back then I had abysmally low self esteem, I would look in the mirror - if I even looked in a mirror - and cry because of how overwhelmingly ugly I felt. (I don't hate my face anymore. Zevism really changed me.)
On the odd occasion I did wear makeup to perfect my skin - I got more looks from men. It is just simple fact that I got more attention when I wore it. In fact, they would stare. Barely anybody would look at me sideways if I did not wear it. (Or at least, I did not notice.) Someone with such bad self esteem such as mine back then, would easily come to the conclusion that the "easiest" and "safest" thing to do for their tiny little broken ego... is wear makeup to feel better.
We live in a very superficial society and in many people's cases, people will literally make conversation or comments about the imperfections on your face or skin. In some extreme cases, people are shaming skin colour so badly, it's driving people to literally bleach their skin.

Or how about the "you look tired" one liner everyone loves so much.

We've all seen the "take her swimming on the first date" memes I'm sure, or the "what's under that beard?" memes in retort. There is distrust from the trend of dramatic facial alteration to conform to ideals. But the truth is, it is being perpetuated by the very people that persecute. The passive aggressiveness centred around this frustration is only adding fuel to the fire on both sides.

If we think about it - makeup has the power to make one confident, feel beautiful, perhaps even like royalty. That is almost alchemical in definition. It is a creative expression. It is incredibly artistic and an artform, a craft in itself. You could even say it is an expression of hidden aspects of ourselves. Our face is the first thing someone is going to notice, and it is the boldest statement one can make.

Makeup can be symbolic. Red lipstick was symbolic of strength and recovery from the sufferagette movement. It was used as a statement of rebellion. It even motivated house-bound women to go out and get a job just to afford it. To many, it was also a symbol of hope and cheer during/after WWI. It is still a strong statement now - more of confidence and a sexy statement. Many have said it mimics the colour lips turn when aroused and that's part of why we find it so sexy!

So there are good things and bad things. Clearly, women do need to work on foundational self esteem, this would alleviate half of the problem. I am drawing a pretty big blank here, so if you guys can help with some solutions that would be great; I think one possible solution to solving the rest of it, is to publically encourage an environment where it's okay and even sexy to show your imperfections. This particular subject is not spoken about nearly enough - especially by men, who have an extremely, extremely large influence on this (whether women will admit it or not) and almost no knowledge of the reality. Many are clueless on just how heavily this weighs on women. We are spiralling further and further into a "catfish" society and we all have to try and intervene. Snapchat and instagram is the tip of the iceberg. Real time facial projection technology is being perfected and showcased. Fuck knows what else is in store.

A good make-up can make your face, man or woman, more beautiful.
This has contributed to creating the stereotype that men are more attracted to beauty and physical appearance, but this is wrong, because if make-up were a balanced thing between men and women, it would turn out that a person's desires go beyond biological sex and are extremely individual

Larissa666 wrote:

Is lack of vanity a bad thing?

Asking for a friend. :lol:

No, it's a very good thing.
Most women constantly compare themselves to other women, which leads to animosity and jealousy between them, I find that ridicolous, but hey that's what it is in a society where most pretty women's self esteem is based on their body count and looks.

A woman who doesn't have vanity or shallowness is a breath of fresh air.

Soul Wings wrote:

Stormblood wrote:

Would it happen to be on this forum or is it back on Yahoo? I'm definitely curious about chemicals in makeup. I hear about specific ones every now and then but it's not comprehensive info usually.

This forum.

Soul Wings wrote:

Stormblood wrote:

Would it happen to be on this forum or is it back on Yahoo? I'm definitely curious about chemicals in makeup. I hear about specific ones every now and then but it's not comprehensive info usually.

https://ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27845

Oh, I also wanted to agree with HP, it also can be like art. I like red lipstick and different eyeliner and some exaggeration because it's literal art, just like I enjoy costumes and uniforms with broad shoulders because they are metaphorical in a way. I don't look like Conan but everybody kind of does in a suit. A uniform is a uniform, like makeup is just colors and stuff, but it's a bit more than just that. I couldn't apply to makeup to a woman like she does because it is actually a personal expression and physically harder than it looks.

I definitely do not like women who think they are superior because they say they don't like makeup or men who think they are superior because they never wore a uniform though. That's just how your life played out and how the people in your life reacted to your circumstance and what you needed to do to get by, it doesn't say everything about your character. Especially if the woman is already really pretty and the guy already has broad shoulders, it can be kind of narcissistic to say how you don't need the suit or the makeup while everybody else does. That's simply not how life works. That doesn't advertise anything but an attitude, it's just a brag of how real and down-to-earth you oestnsibly are. I used to be the guy who told women they don't need to wear makeup but once I was out of highschool I think I realized some women actually just want to wear makeup because it looks good and I want to wear a suit because it looks good. I wish I figured that out sooner so I didn't seem like I was the only person I thought was allowed to look good.

It's not to impress random people, it's because people just respond a certain way by default because that's how it is and it helps you get your way in society to look some way sometimes and sometimes you just want to dress up. Creative appearance is somewhat of a way to socialize with people you'd otherwise have nothing to do with and that's probably better than nothing for a society that wants to interact at all. I'd say "who cares?" but I do want have social status and there's value in wearing makeup and/or a suit if you want that because people just respond to it in a positive way for you, so I'd actually recommend experimenting with wearing uniforms or makeup or any of the traditional gendered vanity just to get a better idea of how it affects you and how you can use your personal image to your advantage and make it a part of yourself as a personality. It's insane how much positive friendly attention a man can get just from dressing well or a woman from having really interesting makeup, it's really not that much different.

Makeup could be extremely dangerous and give Women Cancers and other diseases and is harmful to the men around you if you don't know what's in it. I prefer to stay away from Women who wear excessive makeup because the chemicals may transfer to me.

Soul Wings wrote:

I think it is important to feel yourself whether you are wearing makeup or not. Many women say they feel "naked" or not themselves going out without makeup. It has become so ingrained in our routines it feels out of place without it. It has become so fiercely associated with femininity, one could almost feel out of place or even "unfeminine" without it.
The history of makeup has been quite an interesting relationship. Ancient egyptians would wear eyeliner to announce status and use it for ritual. It may have given some practical benefit to reflect the sun. Around the world, royalty and aristocracy would powder their faces paler to feel more "virgin" and "pure", or youthful. There are also tribal and spiritual connections as well.

Many argue that makeup is simply to enhance what beauty they already have. They are trying to hide the fact it is mainly used by modern women to cover imperfections or dramatically alter the appearance of one's face. Most women know this truth and men are starting to realise as well. The word "glamour" is derived from both "grammar" - study of language and literature; and "grammatica" - occult learning tacked on. The magical association with the word didn't come till 100 years later - meaning things like "enchantment", "illusiory", "romantic", "alluring", and so on.

It's not necissarily hurting anyone, so is it harmful? Well, it doesn't have to be.

I'm going to open with some personal context. I never really wore makeup growing up because not only did school not allow it, but honestly, there was no one around me to bother impressing with it. I did not have much money either, and what little I had I spent on trying to combat my acne. However, back then I had abysmally low self esteem, I would look in the mirror - if I even looked in a mirror - and cry because of how overwhelmingly ugly I felt. (I don't hate my face anymore. Zevism really changed me.)
On the odd occasion I did wear makeup to perfect my skin - I got more looks from men. It is just simple fact that I got more attention when I wore it. In fact, they would stare. Barely anybody would look at me sideways if I did not wear it. (Or at least, I did not notice.) Someone with such bad self esteem such as mine back then, would easily come to the conclusion that the "easiest" and "safest" thing to do for their tiny little broken ego... is wear makeup to feel better.
We live in a very superficial society and in many people's cases, people will literally make conversation or comments about the imperfections on your face or skin. In some extreme cases, people are shaming skin colour so badly, it's driving people to literally bleach their skin.

Or how about the "you look tired" one liner everyone loves so much.

We've all seen the "take her swimming on the first date" memes I'm sure, or the "what's under that beard?" memes in retort. There is distrust from the trend of dramatic facial alteration to conform to ideals. But the truth is, it is being perpetuated by the very people that persecute. The passive aggressiveness centred around this frustration is only adding fuel to the fire on both sides.

If we think about it - makeup has the power to make one confident, feel beautiful, perhaps even like royalty. That is almost alchemical in definition. It is a creative expression. It is incredibly artistic and an artform, a craft in itself. You could even say it is an expression of hidden aspects of ourselves. Our face is the first thing someone is going to notice, and it is the boldest statement one can make.

Makeup can be symbolic. Red lipstick was symbolic of strength and recovery from the sufferagette movement. It was used as a statement of rebellion. It even motivated house-bound women to go out and get a job just to afford it. To many, it was also a symbol of hope and cheer during/after WWI. It is still a strong statement now - more of confidence and a sexy statement. Many have said it mimics the colour lips turn when aroused and that's part of why we find it so sexy!

So there are good things and bad things. Clearly, women do need to work on foundational self esteem, this would alleviate half of the problem. I am drawing a pretty big blank here, so if you guys can help with some solutions that would be great; I think one possible solution to solving the rest of it, is to publically encourage an environment where it's okay and even sexy to show your imperfections. This particular subject is not spoken about nearly enough - especially by men, who have an extremely, extremely large influence on this (whether women will admit it or not) and almost no knowledge of the reality. Many are clueless on just how heavily this weighs on women. We are spiralling further and further into a "catfish" society and we all have to try and intervene. Snapchat and instagram is the tip of the iceberg. Real time facial projection technology is being perfected and showcased. Fuck knows what else is in store.

It’s whatever someone prefers and knows where their weaknesses are. I went through a no make up phase because I didn’t want to rely on it and wanted to test it out. Now it’s irrelevant. It’s a big part of who I am and who I’ll always be, for the right reasons. And some people will judge you for it, some will judge you without it. It’s reasonable and healthy to dress up, have a style, and express your own vibe. Energies actually correlate to various styles too. The karshadians style is very Venus for example. People on here might find a lot of reasons to hate them but I strictly admire their style at the least. I’m also not against style trends. I strongly encourage spiritual people to build a strong identity, self worth, and strong personal foundation and not criticize or overthink that aspect. It’s all about you.

Ol argedco luciftias wrote:

Yay you're amazing thank you!

Larissa666 wrote:

Is lack of vanity a bad thing?

Asking for a friend. :lol:

I think most people are vain in some way, even people who don't consider themselves vain have their days.
Personally I think too much vanity can bring hubris and foolishness.
Too little can bring self esteem issues and overthinking.
So it is good to be in the middle if you can.