Obliterating My Saturn [help]

The only house system you should be using is Placidus and not one made-up system we know nothing about and that has a name related to the king of the Gigantes, and thus representative of the chaotic, destructive aspect of nature.

Stormblood wrote:

The only house system you should be using is Placidus and not one made-up system we know nothing about and that has a name related to the king of the Gigantes, and thus representative of the chaotic, destructive aspect of nature.

I write respectfully and kindly in addressing your post, to explore the topic further.

Quote from Mageson:

"
The Neoplatonist philosopher Porphyry stated the celebrations that with done on the festival of Saturnalia where about the "freeing of souls into immortality". This is done by the Magnum Opus. Saturnalia is based on Liberation and dissolution of the Magnum Opus its based on the sun entering Capricorn:"

HP Mageson writes about Porphyry here too: https://www.ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21151
HP Zevios mentions him briefly here: https://www.ancient-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3103

Porphyry (name meaning "purple clad") is very well known neoplatonist philosopher. His teacher was Plotinus, one of the most influential Hellenistic philosophers of his time. Chances are if it was a topic in the ancient world, he already had writings on it. He was also a hardcore pagan and wrote a series of works against christianity (which were banned by the church).

The name we all know him by (Porphyry) came from one of his teachers, Cassius Longinus of Athens, because it's most likely a reference to purple dyes due to his Phoenician heritage. Porphyry was a common name in Tyre, where he came from (the city of purple). This is one of the city's well known exports, which is both rare and difficult to produce. His given name was name "Malchus" which meant king in semitic languages. (we'll leave that name Malchus up for debate, due to his Phoenician heritage).

You can read more about Porphyry here.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/porphyry/

His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.

As for the ancient Giant (from theoi):
Porphyrion could mean "Surging" from the Greek word porphyreôs, a term applied to both the surge of battle and the sea; or "Gleaming Darkly" from the word porphyrô; or else "Purple-Coot" from porphyriôn. Also "purple one."
There may be a relation, but the meaning is just the color purple.

94n wrote:

His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.

I quoted only the relevant part, because the rest has nothing to do with it. It's wrong to divide the houses into equal parts. How do you account for intercepted signs this way? You can't. There's a reason each house has a different size too and it relates to the importance of that house in one's life, as do other factors. Placidus is more accurate in this.

Feel free to explain why an equal-size house system is valid and whether you would say it's more accurate or not. I'll also quote Lydia and Zevios Metathronos here, so they can share their knowledge and experience, if they wish to do it.

Lydia wrote:

...

HP. Zevios Metathronos wrote:

666

Stormblood wrote:

94n wrote:

His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.

I quoted only the relevant part, because the rest has nothing to do with it. It's wrong to divide the houses into equal parts. How do you account for intercepted signs this way? You can't. There's a reason each house has a different size too and it relates to the importance of that house in one's life, as do other factors. Placidus is more accurate in this.

Feel free to explain why an equal-size house system is valid and whether you would say it's more accurate or not. I'll also quote Lydia and Zevios Metathronos here, so they can share their knowledge and experience, if they wish to do it.

Lydia wrote:

...

HP. Zevios Metathronos wrote:

666

Stormblood,

Why do you think it's irrelevant? You brought up his name and accused his name as destructive, so of course it's relevant to the discussion. While his works may have been altered and destroyed, he was still an influential figure in naturalist philosophy. All I wanted was to be more careful, rather than to accidentally disparage someone from the past who may have done good work.

The superiority or inferiority of house systems (such as placidus or porphyry) wasn't the point I wanted to make, but that many ancient societies, cultures, and their intelligentsia, practiced astrology that fit their viewpoint and the way they conceptualized the universe. I don't use Porphyry houses, but astrologers at the time certainly did, and they certainly wouldn't have had patronage if their technique was ineffective.

To say they were wrong, and to say that the astrology that is commonly practiced on this forum is the only correct way, I find to be short sighted and close minded. Are you going to tell me that the Greek scholars who had access to the Library of Alexandria were wrong and ineffective because they used the whole sign system? Or the Greek Mystery Schools that commonly pushed astrological information out were wrong because it wasn't placidus? Let people explore what works for them and what doesn't, rather than shutting them down.

Hear me out. There's more than one way to practice astrology.

So, again, you have no real argument to make and zero experience with the alleged efficacy of said system. Case closed.

In case you feel like casting more doubt, here's the ToZ talking about intercepted signs and planets:

How to Read an Astrology Chart - by High Priestess Pythia wrote:

Intercepted signs and planets are weaker. (...)

There can be more than one ascending sign, in the case of an intercepted sign in the first house. The planet/s that rule the intercepted sign are co-ruler/s. (...)

IS THE RULER INTERCEPTED OR RETROGRADE?
If the ruler is intercepted or retrograde, the latter half of the life will be better than the early years. A retrograde ruler and indicates a so-called "late bloomer," especially if more than two planets are retrograde. Many planets, even if the ruler/s is direct, when retrograde indicate the above as well. (...)

Source: https://templeofzeus.org/Astrology.php

94n wrote:

If you find intercepted to work for you, then good for you. But these are your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Opinions do not matter. I've had disagreements with people based on their opinions, I always go by what I see and what is tried and tested and true.

If someone has an intercepted sign in their 1st house, the planet ruling that sign is very much their ruler. You see this in their physical appearance, and their personality, view of the world, etc. People look and act like their AC sign/s, including what is intercepted. Equal house system, just doesn't work. This is not just my "opinion".

Lydia wrote:

94n wrote:

If you find intercepted to work for you, then good for you. But these are your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Opinions do not matter. I've had disagreements with people based on their opinions, I always go by what I see and what is tried and tested and true.

If someone has an intercepted sign in their 1st house, the planet ruling that sign is very much their ruler. You see this in their physical appearance, and their personality, view of the world, etc. People look and act like their AC sign/s, including what is intercepted. Equal house system, just doesn't work. This is not just my "opinion".

Lydia,

Keep in mind, your word is "i." What you feel is tried and true, and what works for you. Your opinion matters.

I have talked to many professional astrologers before and have gathered opinions, and usually they think their own system of interpretation is superior than anyone else. They're free to think so.

I find that many view these things as tools as a means for interpretations. If a tool doesn't work for you, then it won't. If a tool works well for you, then good. In astrology there's plenty of these tools you can use in your arsenal.

For example, the definition of a chart ruler changes throughout the ages or whoever you are talking to or whatever they practice.

But using it to shut down discussions is counterproductive, as most astrological ideas come from discussion, practice, and the transmission of ideas.

Stormblood wrote:

So, again, you have no real argument to make and zero experience with the alleged efficacy of said system. Case closed.

In case you feel like casting more doubt, here's the ToZ talking about intercepted signs and planets:

How to Read an Astrology Chart - by High Priestess Pythia wrote:

Intercepted signs and planets are weaker. (...)

There can be more than one ascending sign, in the case of an intercepted sign in the first house. The planet/s that rule the intercepted sign are co-ruler/s. (...)

IS THE RULER INTERCEPTED OR RETROGRADE?
If the ruler is intercepted or retrograde, the latter half of the life will be better than the early years. A retrograde ruler and indicates a so-called "late bloomer," especially if more than two planets are retrograde. Many planets, even if the ruler/s is direct, when retrograde indicate the above as well. (...)

Source: https://templeofzeus.org/Astrology.php

Good for her, she is a credible and talented astrologer who has years of experience.

I hope you find much success in your astrological endeavors. I am certain you're well on your way with your preferred house system.