Martial arts and the scam of aesthetics

[Labion]

Here's a quick little story: A few months ago I had someone bring up in conversation they wanted to find a boxing gym in their area. There was one in particular this person has heard many good things about and was contemplating checking out that gym. They did not know my martial arts background and out of curiosity I asked if the gym had a website. I looked it up online. It was a very big and nice looking place with a fight cage, fancy lights, lots of people in the photos with boxing gloves on. Immediately I was able to pick up on some red flags. I explained to this person the gym looks nice from what I can see but that has nothing to do with skill development. I proceeded to look at the class schedule. Boxing was 4 days a week and only lasted 1 hour each day. 30 minutes of that 1 hour boxing session would be used up for regular exercise which they use a term "conditioning" as a way to make it seem fancier than it actually is. The actual skill training only lasted 30 minutes each day. Out of those four days that only means 2 hours of actual boxing training throughout the week, if you can actually attend class four days a week that is, Which they tire out their students beforehand so they aren't actually able to absorb all the skill for that day. The membership fee was very expensive as well with a very long term contract. I then read the description of the class and their gym. They referred to boxing as "an efficient self defense system that is great at creating character development and gives people confidence". That showed me they don't actually understand their system and whether they realize it or not they are robbing people. We decided to look at other boxing gyms in the area and all had some major red flags similar to the above example. All I could recommend to that person was see if they can attend free trial classes and use their better judgement to decide what gym to go to and to also keep an open mind about trying other systems just in case.
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When I first began my martial arts journey I thought if I studied what I can online, look at as many videos as I can, and even try to self teach myself, I could obtain decent skill. Just enough for when I finally found a gym, that it would save me from looking like a total novice and it would speed up the process of my training. I didn't want to look bad when I entered the gym. I wanted to look good and avoid being a burden to everyone else around me. I was a beginner that didn't want to look like a beginner. I was wrong to think this. Now being an instructor in training, I've dealt with so many beginners that also had very similar lines of thinking when they started their journeys. Anyone that has read my posts can see I am very dedicated to debunking misinformation and bringing to light the many scams that exist in the martial arts world which I myself and many others were victims of.


One major issue I have found much of my beginners had is they were very mesmerized by aesthetics in the beginning. "I thought it looked cool so I wanted to try it","That looks cool I want to buy it", and so on and so forth. This could be about anything. Buying an expensive "uniform" or belt, a gym membership for a gym they see online with fancy lights and a fight ring with a nice big open space, or even just something as simple as a training course they saw on YouTube. The point of focus here is how easily it is to get people to do something just because it looks "cool". If it's aesthetically pleasing enough people will come in droves to buy it. More times than not, the coolest thing to do is not the best, or the most effective, or even the most practical. The criteria for something to be aesthetically pleasing is an entirely different category than the criteria for practical, effective, etc. We must be objective and go with what we can prove to be undeniably correct with no bias at all if possible.

When picking out something martial arts related, one must take into consideration the desired goal and the criteria needed to fulfill that goal. Your answer will obviously determine how lax you can afford to be with the quality of your training but the same principle applies regardless of your answer.

What is your goal? Do you want to do this for fun? To be a good fighter? To be a teacher? Is it just a hobby or something you want to take seriously? How does this gym and what it can offer bring you to your goal?

An easy way to go about this is asking yourself in simple terms.. *does this = this?*

Examples:

1. Does a big gym = I'll be a good fighter?

No. A big gym means they have enough money to afford one. That does NOT directly mean they offer quality instruction. So then we must ask what are they doing to afford a large space? The answer varies from place to place. I've seen some gyms sell their own brand of shirts and have optional events throughout the year. Others force students to buy belts to "rank up" and obtain more privileges in the gym such as sparring.


2. Does 2 hours a week = i will become a good teacher?

No. There's 168 hours in 7 days. You spend 2 hours training a week and the other 166 doing things in daily life which effectively untrains your combative ability. You will spend most if not all of those 2 hours a week reclaiming what was lost and/or being stagnant in development.

3. Does buying a uniform = I'll look like a real fighter?

No. Clothes is clothes. It has nothing to do with your skill. Looking like a real fighter means being a real fighter.

4. Does watching martial art videos online= I can teach myself things on my own?

Yes. Are these things beneficial? No. You are not a teacher. How can you teach when you have no idea how to teach and no idea about what you are teaching? If we all did not need in person instruction, gyms and schools wouldn't exist. Also keep in mind muscle memory can be stubborn. Things can linger in the body subtly and long after we thought they were gone.

This is obviously very simplified so everyone of any level can get an understanding of what I am teaching. Look at the criteria needed to accomplish something and you will see they require hyper specific conditions. Everything aside from what is specifically required is useless and will only get in the way of proper development.

Here is a more relatable example of what I mean: When we do our meditations and affirmations we are very hyper specific. This is because we understand to obtain a desired result we must fulfill certain criteria. If we don't the energy will manifest in the way of least resistance. Not what's healthiest or beneficial unless specifically willed to do so. It's all short, simple, and direct. No room for uselessness.

I hope this can help beginners weed out some of the bs when getting into martial arts.

Please feel free to ask any questions here


Hail Satan
Hail Asmodeus
Hail Satanachia

 

[Mavi ay]

Boxing is not a martial art. It's too inadequate a sport to be a martial art.

 

[HPS Lydia]

This is very true. Too many people just go for what looks good, and get scammed into spending lots of money on all the accessories of big brand venues. A person can learn a lot more from a private instructor in some run-down little gym than one of those flashy venues.

Boxing is not a martial art. It's too inadequate a sport to be a martial art.

Boxing does in fact meet the 4 criteria required to be officially called a martial art.

 

[BlackOnyx8 [JG]]

Very nice post. I practice in the smallest and cheapest dojo in town, and we get prepared for life. It's not the gear that matters, but the people in there.

 

[Stormblood]

...

Very true! Unfortunately, that's the case in many things in life, not just in martial arts. Even more so when you become an adult. It's nearly to find places where you have the freedom to seriously pursue something like martial arts, sports, or heaven-defying forms of training.

Even rarer is to find like-minded people who are as committed as you'd like to get in a new discipline.

 

[Labion]

Boxing is not a martial art. It's too inadequate a sport to be a martial art.

I humbly disagree. The most common variation we see today is indeed competition based or a sport. However it wasn't always like that and even the modern variation is not inadequate by any means. Too many boxers have knocked out people from various systems in and out of the ring for it to not be adequate. Boxing is one of the better combat sports out there and definitely can injure a person in a none competition based setting.

Combat sports come from traditional martial arts. They simply evolved by favoring certain aspects of the system for a competition setting. They are easier to understand for that purpose and use more natural body mechanics.

Boxing is one of the fastest at producing a fighter and one of the fastest for people to advance in. While traditional arts practitioners are taking massive amounts of time stretching ligaments, getting in very low stances, doing forms, and more which can take months, boxers rapidly go from learning their punches and footwork to just purely training and refining everything.

 

[Mavi ay]

Boxing is not a martial art. It's too inadequate a sport to be a martial art.

I humbly disagree. The most common variation we see today is indeed competition based or a sport. However it wasn't always like that and even the modern variation is not inadequate by any means. Too many boxers have knocked out people from various systems in and out of the ring for it to not be adequate. Boxing is one of the better combat sports out there and definitely can injure a person in a none competition based setting.

Combat sports come from traditional martial arts. They simply evolved by favoring certain aspects of the system for a competition setting. They are easier to understand for that purpose and use more natural body mechanics.

Boxing is one of the fastest at producing a fighter and one of the fastest for people to advance in. While traditional arts practitioners are taking massive amounts of time stretching ligaments, getting in very low stances, doing forms, and more which can take months, boxers rapidly go from learning their punches and footwork to just purely training and refining everything.

You listed the reasons why boxing is not a martial art. Martial arts are not about nakovt, they are about improving your life. The other thing is that there is nothing behind modern boxing. The function of boxing today is to punch and kick. It's not enough to be a martial art. I have tried many far-eastern martial arts and believe me, no sensei considers boxing as a martial art. Martial arts is a lifelong development. But in modern boxing you can work for 4-5 years and even become a teacher. Even if you work for 10 years in a real martial art, you cannot reach the level of a sensei. Boxing is definitely not a martial art, there is not even spiritual knowledge in it.

 

[Labion]

[/quote] You listed the reasons why boxing is not a martial art. Martial arts are not about nakovt, they are about improving your life. The other thing is that there is nothing behind modern boxing. The function of boxing today is to punch and kick. It's not enough to be a martial art. I have tried many far-eastern martial arts and believe me, no sensei considers boxing as a martial art. Martial arts is a lifelong development. But in modern boxing you can work for 4-5 years and even become a teacher. Even if you work for 10 years in a real martial art, you cannot reach the level of a sensei. Boxing is definitely not a martial art, there is not even spiritual knowledge in it.
[/quote]

I listed reasons why the competition variation is not inadequate as you stated. The competition variation is not the only variation to exist. It's simply what we will most commonly find. It does not mean it's the only version to exist. As I said combat sports come from traditional arts.

Martial arts means art of war. A warfare art. Warfare as in combat. It's about combat. Are there some more spiritual focused arts? Sure. But they also have a combative side as per the name. Even something like tai chi which many people do for spiritual purposes is just very slow paced strikes and redirections.

Wing Chun is primarily punches and has some kicks. The majority of training is focused on training the punch as it's the main weapon of the system just as boxing. The most effective variations of wing chun have no spirituality in the curriculum. Would you say wing chun is not traditional then? Boxing was invented hundreds of years before wing chun was. Wing chun was invented around the 1700s. It's fairly new compared to other arts.

To say boxing is just punches and kicks and that's why it isn't enough to be a martial art is incorrect. The criteria for an art of warfare has nothing to do with the number of weapons in the systems arsenal. Variations of boxing such as Muay boran have indeed been used on the battlefield. Even soldiers in our modern day and law enforcement are taught some type of boxing. Boxing most definitely is a real martial art with many variations and a vast history. These systems just happen to produce fighters faster as they are very natural and easy for the body to understand. I'm surprised you have spoke with multiple people with the rank of sensei about this topic and none seem to have mentioned this to you...

 

[Stormblood]

You listed the reasons why boxing is not a martial art. Martial arts are not about nakovt, they are about improving your life. The other thing is that there is nothing behind modern boxing. The function of boxing today is to punch and kick. It's not enough to be a martial art. I have tried many far-eastern martial arts and believe me, no sensei considers boxing as a martial art. Martial arts is a lifelong development. But in modern boxing you can work for 4-5 years and even become a teacher. Even if you work for 10 years in a real martial art, you cannot reach the level of a sensei. Boxing is definitely not a martial art, there is not even spiritual knowledge in it.

I listed reasons why the competition variation is not inadequate as you stated. The competition variation is not the only variation to exist. It's simply what we will most commonly find. It does not mean it's the only version to exist. As I said combat sports come from traditional arts.

Martial arts means art of war. A warfare art. Warfare as in combat. It's about combat. Are there some more spiritual focused arts? Sure. But they also have a combative side as per the name. Even something like tai chi which many people do for spiritual purposes is just very slow paced strikes and redirections.

Wing Chun is primarily punches and has some kicks. The majority of training is focused on training the punch as it's the main weapon of the system just as boxing. The most effective variations of wing chun have no spirituality in the curriculum. Would you say wing chun is not traditional then? Boxing was invented hundreds of years before wing chun was. Wing chun was invented around the 1700s. It's fairly new compared to other arts.

To say boxing is just punches and kicks and that's why it isn't enough to be a martial art is incorrect. The criteria for an art of warfare has nothing to do with the number of weapons in the systems arsenal. Variations of boxing such as Muay boran have indeed been used on the battlefield. Even soldiers in our modern day and law enforcement are taught some type of boxing. Boxing most definitely is a real martial art with many variations and a vast history. These systems just happen to produce fighters faster as they are very natural and easy for the body to understand. I'm surprised you have spoke with multiple people with the rank of sensei about this topic and none seem to have mentioned this to you...

I mean no offense, that a physical system without spiritual system is very dry. It may be "very effective" in today's world but, once you start having people using internal energy to strike, any non-spiritual system falls short and disappear as the physical body on its own can never catch up to someone who combines both physical and spiritual energies in their fighting style.

Today's martial arts are diseased. Even those which claim to be internal (or both internal and external) nowadays lack the depth and efficacy of a fully-developed system. Fast progression in martial arts is not important. What matters is dedication and a complete system that develops 360 degrees. Spending hours a day cultivating such a system is important and that leads to faster progress compared to training places nowadays where things are half-assed. However, the progress is not necessarily fast by universal standards. Patience is a virtue and it's humbling to see how vast the sky is.

The only thing that can bridge the gap between master and discipline is talent. Having a system where someone can be a so-called "master" in a few years doesn't make any sense. To be a master of an art, you not only need to very advanced in that art but also have the ability to impart your teachings to others. Just having menial combat ability is not enough, as the universe is much larger than just the physical level.

The real masters are the Gods. An in-depth conversation with any of them, especially those specialised in martial pursuits, can reveal just how much martial arts have regressed compared to the time they walked on Earth and how low and useless is what is taught nowadays compared to other more spiritually-advanced places in the universe.

This shouldn't however discourage anyone from learning martial arts. Just take the teachings with a grain of salt, incorporate it with your spiritual path by holding spiritual teachings as the structure to develop your body (not the other way around), and seek tuition from the Gods and Demons who are masters in the martial path.

 

[InfraRedd88]

I’d love to learn Icelandic Combat Glima! If you all haven’t heard of that I suggest you look it up. Big time hail Wodan!

 

[Shemsu]

You both make good points on this interesting subject I had quite a few discussions about. If I may add my 2c. For me the distinction between a martial art and a combat sport or a combat craft (if it's not a sport and used for real combat) is in the use of breathing techniques and other means that activate the chi thus supplementing the purely physical aspect of it for maximum efficiency. I have to go with Stormblood here. On many occasions from street fights to real combat use, as in real war and not training, I've witnessed the superiority of complete systems that in my eyes truly constitute an art over incomplete ones such as boxing.

As HPS Lydia mentioned, the official criteria for being considered a martial art are met by boxing and it is indeed effective depending on who's on the other side. However I disagree with said criteria because an art is something of a higher nature that has a spiritual aspect to it.

Boxing could be easily transformed into a true martial art with the incorporation of a few elements but sadly in the form that it's being practiced today it is not on that level to be compared to real martial arts.

SWP

 

[Labion]

I agree 100%. It will be interesting to see how things evolve as more accurate spiritual knowledge becomes more public.

 

[Asurya]

Internal martial arts still exists and is making a comeback. I don't know about incorporating spirituality into it but there are viable ways to use the body martially and then there are ingenious and beyond clever ways, as well. This is where internal lies.

The knowledge was lost as commonplace for numerous reasons. One of them was as a means to guard secrets to keep an advantage.

I agree with the op that a lot of combat sports gyms suck. They make training into cardio classes with shitty music as a business model. Daycare for adults.

People don't understand the need to train body skills themselves as a foundation of martial capability.
Russian boxing makes their students learn humerus rotation and relaxed movement as fundamentals, for example. It's not all bad... most boxers are more badass than most adults who take karate classes, anyway.
Wrestling is pretty badass, too.

 

[Stormblood]

Internal martial arts still exists and is making a comeback. I don't know about incorporating spirituality into it but there are viable ways to use the body martially and then there are ingenious and beyond clever ways, as well. This is where internal lies.

The knowledge was lost as commonplace for numerous reasons. One of them was as a means to guard secrets to keep an advantage.

I agree with the op that a lot of combat sports gyms suck. They make training into cardio classes with shitty music as a business model. Daycare for adults.

People don't understand the need to train body skills themselves as a foundation of martial capability.
Russian boxing makes their students learn humerus rotation and relaxed movement as fundamentals, for example. It's not all bad... most boxers are more badass than most adults who take karate classes, anyway.
Wrestling is pretty badass, too.

The problem I've seen with internal martial arts nowadays is that they seem to be framed to be about health. That's not the purpose of them though. The best martial arts in the past incorporated both internal and external aspects: the internal would work on spiritual advancement, specifically catered to the martial aspect; the external would work on the body and combat techniques. Health is mere byproduct of martial arts and qigong/neigong, not the main goal.

I'm just speaking in general. I'm not targeting you.

Much spiritual knowledge is unfortunately lost. And even when we see qigong masters performing feats of healing people, these people still look old because they neglected or lacked the pursuit of the real aims of qigong. Otherwise, they would look as if they are are in their late 20s and early 30s despite being 80 and over 100. Very few masters actually still cultivate themselves properly, and those don't even make it to youtube videos because they are wise enough not to become a target for the enemy.